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John
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: UK
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 Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Anyone like to get back to the original topic?
I am interested to see if anyone else has got any thoughts on it |
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ex-london
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| John wrote: | Ok I thought you meant just married.
You are right celibacy is still adviced for those in marriage in Brahmin life by the BKs. That could be why the householder path is stronger |
I'd love to see you go up to ask the SS [ senior sisters ] whether it was good for your spiritual path to look for an attractive girl to move in with !?!
However, may be you could get away with a matronly housekeeper / servant to look after you if you could afford one! |
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jamesy
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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John wrote:
| Quote: | Anyone like to get back to the original topic?
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Hi John,
Having got this far I’m amazed someone can still remember! Must confess to becoming completely distracted by the counselling session that Ex-l, Tete etc decided you were sorely in need of. As far as I can see, this looks like the xbk-bk dialogue area of the forum so your original question doesn’t look out of place here. Might even go as far as to say that the there’s heaps of space elsewhere on the forum where the ‘out, and jolly well staying out’ faction probably feel more at home.
But back to your query..
One of the attributes that ShivaBaba ascribes to, is that of key holder to divine visions on the path of bhakti.
Obviously this does seem to run contrary to the more regular contention that his role is restricted to the duration of the confluence age.
To my mind he doesn't really see the need to pin the situation down and in the avyakts has at times appeared quite categorical on restricting himself to the confluence age
and then at other times, tantalisingly alluded to a more protracted role handing out the necessary visions when the path of bhakti begins.
It's one of those aspects of gyan that's been quite open to discussion in b.k. churning groups, but where there never seemed to be any urgency to tie down to any definite conclusion.
e.g does he give them out as required.. or all at once with some sort of magical time delay?
Your guess as good as mine.
Jamesy |
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John
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | this looks like the xbk-bk dialogue area of the forum so your original question doesn’t look out of place here. |
Thanks for noticing, I have tried to keep posts in the right place and if I hadn't been so distracted myself, would have pointed it out.
The two bits of information you have were what I was going on, I was puzzled with the seeming contradiction.
If Shiva plays no part in any other ages how does he give visions?
Anyone else have any enlightening additions? |
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jamesy
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I think what I’m trying to say, is that it’s another perplexing case of ‘know and love me for what I do rather than how I do it, cos I’m in no rush to enlighten you!’ Bit like another of his titles – ‘The knower of our hearts’. Mostly he doesn’t, I mean he couldn’t really know all that could he? but then again sometimes he does! ..arrgh |
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Tete
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject: In or Out? |
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Jamesy,
I don’t believe I was offering counseling to John. I don’t know the BK lingo or the philosophy to site by term etc. So, my communication in this area is quite limited and I will acknowledge this. Therefore, my hat is off to him in that he knows more and that is why I said I was open to hear what he has to offer.
Now, I don’t think time was wasted as it has brought forth some issues that have become quite clear. A married person can not expect to have the same type of relationship if they enter the BKs, that point is very clear. The hope of having a more intimate relationship in heaven (I already forgot what you all call it) in the “pure form” can be quite upsetting to a present spouse. I do believe John has offered some clarification for me on this very point and was very courteous in understanding my handicap here.
I did pose the question to John of XBK, current BK or PBK for only one reason. If I had married an XPBK I would be at the XPBKchat site. If he is in transition than I only ask that he state when he is talking of oranges (BKs) and when he switches to apples (PBKs)!
I have never thought I could offer any counseling to XBKs, and believe me I have had them stay in my very home for weeks at a time. I never knew what they were talking about and didn’t mind at all. They were by far very nice, a little critical of me due to the free spirit that I am I believed (ignorance is bliss after all).  It is only recently that I find the need to know more, after almost two decades.
So, being that you have 4 posts I thought I would bring you up to speed on my BK handicap. I would hope that as the site access grows that more family members will come upon this chat to learn more and thereby gain a better understanding of their situation.
Regards,
Tete |
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jamesy
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Tete wrote:
| Quote: | | I don’t believe I was offering counseling to John. |
..Sorry just an attempt at expressing my concern about this thread politely!
Like you I enjoy this forum, and hopefully many more xbk’s will decide to actively participate. However I don’t feel it’s so encouraging when someone posts a question in a section of the forum to which it seems entirely appropriate, that they should then find themselves having to both defend it’s relevance and clarify whether they are ‘in’ or ‘out’.
It’s over 2 years now since I decided to go my own way, and in that time have re-established some contact with a handful of ex-peers, some of whom long time gone, but interestingly all but one have declined to throw the baby out with the bath water. It maybe that like attracts like, but I wouldn’t be surprised if many other xbk’s have likewise salvaged what they could from xbk days and would not necessarily find the ‘in or out’ dichotomy helpful, nor wish to be pressed into declaring one way or the other in public.
But if you feel keeping your apples separate from your oranges enhances your participation why not try the p.m facility? 
Regds
Jamesy |
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satish
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If he returns to Paramdham, then is it not that the mind and Intellect are merged there for souls. Does this mean unconscious? |
I guess we are not unconscious but we are in deep silence. It is just like taking rest, as said in Murali.
| Quote: | | If Shiva plays no part in any other ages how does he give visions? |
According to my opinion the answer lies in the knowledge itself. We have few points saying
1.) 5000 yrs Cycle is predestined and repeated
2.) All souls are unique in their being and have their own capacity
3.) 100 yrs Confluence age is the reflection of your role in whole cycle
4.) Shivababa never responsible of controlling the world in its do’s and don’t’s
5.) World of Shivababa is GA and SA (because he is cause)
6.) World of Maya is CA and IA (because she is cause)
7.) Shivababa never mentioned much about matter but he did mention that matter looks after control of this world.
Accorsing to Murali the role of shivababa only comes in this confluence age. Even in this confluence age his role is about just giving knowledge and showing the track of purity. Its because he knows that it is not in his hands to help us from this worldy bondages, as it is sole responsible of individual to take a risky step of coming out of bondages. However he can guide and help at every step you take, subtly.
Well now coming to you point the divine visions that we get is what matter provides us based on our bakthi or some sort of penance that we have inside. We are not aware of many things how this matter works. Like, I came across some of temples in India, where we can feel the positive vibe calming down your mind. This doesn’t mean that Gods in all those temples are real and they are creating that vibe. The explanation for this by spiritual people is that it is all due to the focus and concentration of the people who visit that temple that which make the place so peaceful. May be this same situation I think will be found in all divine places. And I think you might even get divine visions now being BK according to your belief based on the effort you doing. Well my point is divine visions need not be connected to the GOD and it can be based on spiritual effort that you do. And it can be creation of matter. However we know Shivababa writes our fate in this confluence age for rest of 5000 yrs. So we can take it as whatever fruit we receive in 5000yrs cycle is recorded in confluence age.
Lastly, I believe that soul in us is something more divine. But soul is under impression that it is body and flesh.
thanks
satish |
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Tete
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Jamesy,
Could you please clarify what you mean?
[quote]But if you feel keeping your apples separate from your oranges enhances your participation why not try the p.m facility?
Regds
Jamesy[/quote]
Tete |
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John
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Satish
I do agree that what you say is possible and it's a good explanation,but
why does Shiva say he gives divine visions in the path of Bhakti?
| Quote: | | I guess we are not unconscious but we are in deep silence. It is just like taking rest, as said in Murali. |
There are many types of rest, what do you mean?
Do you think we are aware of being in the soul world and would that apply to Shiva as well |
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satish
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Dear John
Well he is supreme soul, so he is high of all the things. So I dont think he is unconscious in paramdham. Even we all souls are not unconscious when we go in paramdham. The Unconscious comes only when we are conscious of this world around. We are so conscious of this world around that we start thinking that whole presence of us is this bodily life and world around us. Even all of our experiences are based on the incidents that recorded since our childhood. From my knowledge soul never remembers its past life or its worldy life when it is out of its body except some souls who leave their lives unexpectedly and bondages is very high to the world. Also Brahmababa is exceptional as he has task to finish. What I think is when soul without body, it is just calm and peaceful, nothing to do with any sort of information or knowledge and sanskars. Definitely sleep and fainting all are like unconscious things when we are in body. This unconsciousness something related to body..but from that unconsciouness when body stop functioning (dead) then soul has its way to go.
Well Paramdham is our abode and that place is peaceful and silent. We have knowledge of this material world now but the minute when we left our body we are just peaceful soul.
Coming to Shivababa, he said to us that he is knowledgeful and aware of everything. I dont think it doesn't mean , his awareness just limited only out of Paramdham. He can do anything even being in Paramdham (similarly divine visions). But in confluence age he comes to meet children, to give right knowledge and to motivate us both directly and indirectly for the effort that human being has to do in realm. In other words he does his role of creating new world making us soul conscious. Some Bk said to me that after a while, he stop coming in GulzarDadi when he think that he has no words to say.
thanks
satish |
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uddhava
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Paramdham
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: SoBig Shiva and the human computers |
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| ex-london wrote: |
For me, the Brahma Kumaris religion was like a virus in my computer than then downloaded a whole load of new software and installed it without my being aware of it, that set me up to be used and was using my facilities for its purpose. Primarily, this was to infect and download to other human computers which in return were encouraged to do the same. |
Ok but this applies to all religious ideas as they all seek to propagate themselves / evangelise = bring the good news to others. Someone has written a book called 'God is a Virus'.  |
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