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Sakar v Avyakt

 
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wahl



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Essex, England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:45 pm    Post subject: sakar v avyakt

Are there any BKs or XBKs that would like to comment on the following please?

When Brahma Baba related the murli, it was different to Dadi Gulzars experience. Brahma Baba didn't 'vacate' his body in order for God to take it over did he, in other words, he was aware of his words as they were spoken? How do the sakar and the avyakt murlis differ in terms of how the were practically recieved?
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wahl
ex-london



Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: sakar v avyakt

wahl wrote:
Are there any BKs or XBKs that would like to comment on the following please?

When Brahma Baba related the murli, it was different to Dadi Gulzars experience. Brahma Baba didn't 'vacate' his body in order for God to take it over did he, in other words, he was aware of his words as they were spoken? How do the sakar and the avyakt murlis differ in terms of how the were practically recieved?


what do you mean?

as were they written down or taped?

or what is / was the psychic/physical mechanism by which the alleged channelling of some other spirit [ or spirits ] happens?
satish



Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject:

Dear Whal
omshanthi

When Brahma baba was there, shivbaba used to use the mouth of Brahmababa, which Brhamababa would then also used to hear it, as his mouth is just moving without influence of on his own (brahmababa). This is sakar murali, where Brahmababa, the medium, is physically present.
But in Avyakth murali where Brahmababa is not present physically, but still being used as medium. So in Avyakth vani, what I suppose is Gulzardadi, going in trans meanse like she is no more in this world though she is in her body, which we can say is like soul will be in dreams while sleeping. And the medium of the shivababa (brahmababa) will come to Gulzar's body so that he starts speaking Murali from the influence of shivababa. So here point is it can be shivbaba himself speaking or brahmababa speaking the words of shivbaba.
thanks
with love
satish
daviniamaher1



Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:01 pm    Post subject: sakar vs avykat

for me the ending is the most telling feature in the sense that in sakar murli the spiritual father says namaste to the spiritual children whereas in the ayakat vani there is only Accha
satish



Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:11 am    Post subject:

Omshanti

What you think ?Does only BB speaks or BB speaks the words of SB? Or SB alone speak?
satish



Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:14 am    Post subject:

or else both SB and BB speak?

thanks
with love
satish
wahl



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Essex, England

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:55 pm    Post subject:

om shanti

I think that the language of Divinity is of subtle feelings.....which are beyond thoughts let alone words.

wahl

om shanti
bkry



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:31 am    Post subject:

When I am physically present to hear the Avyakt murli being spoken through Dadi Gulzar, my experience is that God is speaking it. When I am looked at when God relates the avyakt murli, my experience is that God is looking at me while He speaks.
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Guest






PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:26 pm    Post subject:

wahl wrote:


I think that the language of Divinity is of subtle feelings.....which are beyond thoughts let alone words.




That is the way it should be
However i do think that the experience in the gathering in mount Abu-madhuban is in itself special but I wonder how many people actually sit and listen to the avykat vani on tape afterwards.
Once when I did do that I nearly jumped out of my seat because it was scary.....the wisper if you know what I mean!!! Yet I know that when I was there I had been completely immersed in the atmosphere.
Tete.
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:30 pm    Post subject: Sakav v avyakt

Dear Guest,

Are there any audio files anywhere, where one could listen to these? Also, what was the topic? Do males and females channel? Do they have to be of a certain level within the BK system?
I am curious as I never knew any of these things were part of the BK practice. I saw a Murli (sp) last year by accident and it brought a panic to my heart. I am sure the person that sent it didn't intend for me to see it.
I sat with a friend, later with my family and finally decided it must be in code, one that I did not possess.

What does Sakav and avyakt mean and was v meant to be vs.?

Ex-L a "Vanilla Version" would help if you know any of the above.

Regards,

Tete
bkry



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:13 am    Post subject:

Actually, when I first heard and saw the avyakt murli spoken through a video, I got very scared, especially when I saw that something had happened to Dadi Gulzar after a jerk and she did not look like herself anymore. After that I was still scared but when I saw it happen in reallity, in Mt Abu, I was not scared at all. Instead, I was very happy because I could subtly recognise God within Dadi Gulzar's corporeal body. I knew that God had entered her and He was looking at me. Later, while speaking the murli, He was looking at me while saying that He was happy that I have finally come or something like that. I knew that He was telling me this but when I was reading the murli later, I noticed that the one who was reading the avyakt murli would think that He was telling this to the whole crowd. There is a difference when one is in front of God when He is using a chariot. Actually, before this first meeting, I was not sure if God does enter Dadi Gulzar. The first meeting confirmed it to me that God is entering Dadi Gulzar. It is strange that I was not sure of this especially since I knew that God had spoken the sakar and the avyakt murlis. Maybe, seeing it through the video had put me in that state. I had seen this video just before leaving for Mt Abu to hear the avyakt murli. The centerwasi wanted us to see what it would be like and so he showed it to us just before we left. Before seeing that video, I was fine and I had compared that which was happening to me before the gyan to that which was happening to me after gyan (in respect of spiritual experiences, receiving God's help etc). I had noticed that before gyan, I was receiving help from God but I was not able to see the Source of that help. After gyan, I was able to see the Source of that help and I knew that it was God who was helping me now and that it was the very same God who was helping me even before gyan because the experiences were so familiar except that I could see the Source now. I also could see that it was God Himself who was speaking the murli to me when the murli was being read. Slowly, with time, I knew (through experiences) that there was no other God other than the One with whom I was able to link myself to.
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Tete



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:07 pm    Post subject: Sakav v avyakt

Dear Bkry,

Are you in India now? How does one obtain said videos that you speak of? Do you remember the name of the prior medium before Dadi Galzar? Does God speak to you on a personal level or is the main communication through these sessions and the Murli's?

I noticed that the Aussie site had Rob's book for sale The Voyagers, has he re-established communication with the the BKs or is his book just on the rack for reading? Last I knew he was in Costa Rica doing wonderful things with common folks and writing lovely pieces that would apply to most people in any given religion.

Do you know of whom I am speaking of? I read one prior book but not this one. Have you read The Voyagers? The title alone has peaked my curiosity.

Thank you in advance for any information you may provide.

Regards,

Tete
bkry



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:36 am    Post subject:

Dear Tete,

It is nice to see you here. Earlier on, I had planned to go in October/November 2005 but now there has been a change of plans and I will only be going to India in January or February 2006.

Videos of the avyakt murlis can be bought at the headquarters in Mt Abu, India. BK centers usually buy them and keep them at the centers. However, they are very careful about lending these out. Maybe, you should talk to the centerwasis in the center which you go to.

Before God started using Dadi Gulzar, He was using the chariot Brahma Baba. Have you heard of him? Well, he plays an important role among BKs but all souls have to be turned towards God so it doesn't matter as to who Baba is using to give the messages. Ultimately, the issue is whether we have become powerful through linking ourselves to God. There are a lot of benefits received through linking ourselves to God. No human soul can give us the help which God can give us. When we are linked to God, we can have communications with Him personally. We understand a lot of what has been said in the murlis through personal experiences. We would not be able to understand our personal expereinces as well if we did not know of what has been said in the murlis. Before I came into gyan (i.e. before I received BK knowledge), I have had experiences which I had never understood as well as I understood it after hearing what has been said in the murlis. For example, in the early 1980s, I used to practice hatha yoga principles where I would go within and request for visions of the truth. Once, at about that time, while I was talking to someone (X hereafter) I went beyond the consciousness of the corporeal body and I could experience the state of the soul to whom I was talking to (X) and the state of myself (the soul). I saw that soul (X) in a pure virtuos state whereas I was not like that at all. The depths within me (the soul) was dull and had black patches all over the place. When I came back into the consciousness of the corporeal body, I noticed that X had bent his corporeal body and was looking into my eyes. When he saw me looking at him again (after having re-gained consciousness), he was so happy and he started smiling with so much of happiness. Since he was a Muslim, I prefered not to discuss my experience with him and I had pretended like as if nothing had happened and had just continued with our conversation. He flowed along with that. At that time I did not know that we were souls. So, I had thought that the depths within me were different from the depths within him. It was only after receiving BK gyan (knowledge) that I understood that he was a new soul and so he was still in a virtuos state whereas I was in a tamopradhan state. It was the truth spoken in the murlis by God that had helped me to understand that which I had experienced before gyan. We have to refer to the murlis to understand what we personally experience through visions etc.
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Tete



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Sakav v avyakt

Dear Bkry,

My curiosity is to better understand my life, not because I seek to join but perhaps I should put on a little ring to remind my self. I donít think I would enjoy the long classes and I find the open eye meditation uncomfortable. I love sleeping in as I woke up early at 5 am for 12 years (working in my business), worked graveyard shift in college for two years and I am finally getting some shut eye. That is why I look here to learn and perhaps see a mention of a book or a site and check it out. My primary interest is the family dynamics, prior to, during and post BK organization.

I found the chat by Brother Neirev (sp) rather pleasant in that he mainly spoke of relieving pain and making patients comfortable in a clinic or perhaps it was a hospital. During the others I found my self wondering about the room checking out the architecture, I suppose mainly because I didn't understand the thread.

I am glad to hear that your journey continues and that you are happy.

Regards,
Tete
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