XBK Chat (unofficial archive)

khormoz · Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Posts: 8 Location: Brampton, Canada

Administrator, I am posting this topic here because I am asking for the personal experiences of PBKs which I think would be of interest to others. Please move it to the PBK forum if you think it would be more appropriate. My apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.

There seems to be 4 paths of people who join the BK movement:
1. Ones who are happy with all aspects of knowledge as taught in BK centres and who either see no inconsistencies or who can satisfactorily explain to themselves or accept those inconsistencies on the basis of other aspects of the knowledge.
2. Ones who are dissatisfied with one or more aspect of the knowledge as taught in BK centres but who either feel that the good outweighs the bad or are now unable to leave because they can't imagine or accept any other alternative. (Various degrees of suffering in various degrees of silence)
3. Ones who leave the movement enough to refer to themselves as XBKs.
4. Ones who become PBKs.

I have heard quite a bit from PBKs on this site but not a lot about how they became that.
I want to know what was the path by which each of the PBKs that post here found the PBK movement and left the BKs (maybe not necessarily in that order). How did you find out about the PBKs? Were you already disenchanted with things in the BK centres? For how long did you tolerate the things that you disagreed with? What were your thought processes?

Regards, khormoz

shivsena · Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject: my experiences.

Dear brother Khormoz.

My experiences as a bk and reason for leaving bk organisation is briefly given below.

I was a Godly student of the Godly Spiritual University (bk) studying Raj-yoga since 1984. Before I got this Godly Knowledge I had been to several spiritual organizations in search of true spiritual Knowledge but nowhere I could find anyone who could answer my questions and quench my thirst for true Knowledge. I was first introduced to this Godly Knowledge in 1984 and after finishing the 7 days course I realized this Knowledge was quite different and that it requires an in-depth study. After about a month's study and deep thinking, I was 100% convinced that this Knowledge is being given by the Supreme Soul God Shiva Himself. Most of the questions about life and Karma, which were bothering me for quite some time, were also answered.

In my early years, I was totally intoxicated by this Godly Knowledge and even though my feet were on the ground I used to feel that I am flying and I was always in very high spirit. As years passed by, I came in close contact with most of the Dadis and Didis and Senior Brothers and Sisters and I used to give this Knowledge to everyone I met including my family, friends and relatives. I used to go to Mount Abu quite often and never missed a chance to do Godly Service, which made me quite popular amongst the Sisters of Raj-yoga Centre which I attended. But there was one regret that I could not meet the Supreme Father in person and one question always remained unanswered- Why did the Supreme Father leave in 1969?

After 1990-91 my intoxication with Godly Knowledge started declining and on churning the Knowledge more unanswered questions started cropping up. I discussed the knowledge in detail with senior Brothers and Sisters but they too were in the dark and could not provide convincing answers. Day by day I become restless and my initial enthusiasm vanished. I could no longer meditate properly and suddenly the seemingly perfect and complete Knowledge became imperfect and incomplete. On top of that the behaviour of the Dadis and senior sisters also alarmed me and surprised me as I saw a visible decline in their divinity, as in myself. In fact I could see declining divinity in the whole Brahmin family, with the Knowledge being pushed in the background and upsurge of materialistic interests in the forefront. I could not understand what was happening and why was it happening!

Then one fine day in 1993, I was introduced to the Advance Godly Knowledge by a friend who told me that Shivbaba is still in person and that He is giving Advance Godly Knowledge and sustenance to the Advance Party incognito. I was so thrilled on hearing this that I packed my bags and left for Farukabad (U.P.- India) immediately to do the 7 days course of Advance Godly Knowledge and to meet Shivbaba in person. After staying in Kampil Village-Farukabad for 7 days there was a miracle change in me and again I was on cloud nine. I was completely rejuvenated and got a new lease of life. Suddenly life appeared to be more meaningful than ever before and past, present and future became crystal clear. My experiences after meeting Shivbaba in person just cannot be put down on paper. The Advance Knowledge is so deep and perfect that you have to take it yourself to realize it. The questions which were not answered in Basic Knowledge were convincingly answered by Advance Knowledge. I had found the true jewels of Knowledge and the treasure house of Knowledge (Shivbaba Himself in person).

Most senior BK’s when asked about the Advance Party are still groping in the dark --- each one has his own concept and nobody really knows the Truth. Given below are some questions not yet answered convincingly by any B.K.

Where is the Advance Party ?

How will the Advance Party give birth to the 1st generation of Golden Age?
How will world transformation from Iron Age to Golden Age actually occur ?
What will happen after Destruction ?
Which Souls will survive the Destruction ?
How will Prince Krishna & Princess Radha take birth? Who will be their Parents ?

The list of question goes on and on --- one question giving rise to another. But there are no answers. What started as a simple Humble OM-MANDLI in 1937 has become a multi-million dollar spiritual conglomerate today, where imparting true Godly Knowledge is no longer the prime objective but where only commercial interests thrive. Baba says that “Simplicity " is the hallmark of Godly student life but the comforts and luxuries of 5 star Rajyoga centers throughout the world prove otherwise. The affluent lifestyles of most Senior Brothers & Sisters have raised many a eyebrows. One really fails to understand how the senior BKs can preach about "simple living and high thinking", when they themselves do not practice it in life. Also, is it not a paradox that the BKs who make tall claims of transforming the world are themselves ignorant about how transformation will actually occur!

I am writing my experiences, not to criticize anyone, but to share my experiences of Godly life with my divine Brothers & Sisters of the divine family. My personal request to all BKs is that everyone should take the 7 days course of Advance Godly Knowledge himself and judge it with one's own intellect and not rely on rumours. I assure you that you will stand to gain immensely from this endeavour.

ok om shanti-----shivsena.
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arjuna · Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject:

Om shanti Bhai!

You ask great questions. I am at work right now so I am unable to post in great length.

For me why I left was mainly because many questions could not be answered and as well in the Avyakt Vanis the advance party was being mentioned yet no one knew anything about them.

I found this rather odd for experienced bk's to not know such an important thing.

I could not also understand bhog, pictures, wearing white etc.

Plus there must be an example. Shiva would not leave us without such.

Take Care,

arjuna · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:53 am Post subject:

Dear Khormoz bhai,
Omshanti. It is very nice of you to have started this topic. This will benefit others also.
As regards my experience, it is similar to Shivsena bhai, who has presented his views in an excellent manner. Most of the PBKs would have an almost similar experience. I would like to add a few words to what Shivsena bhai has written.
I had been a BK since my childhood in the late seventies. I too enjoyed a lot of love and affection from the BK family and used to be regular at murli classes and Godly service. Although the violations of Shrimat were visible to everyone including myself, I tried to overlook them. Even when there was no PBK activity at our place of residence, the BK teachers and students used to openly discuss the violations of Shrimat by the fellow BK teachers. Many BK teachers used to literally fight with each other and some did not see eye to eye in spite of living in the same city.

It was against the rule for the students of one centre to attend classes or do service at the centre of another BK teacher if she was not at good terms with the BK teacher of this centre. All this division within the BK family used to pain me deeply in my heart but as the king so were the subjects and so I too followed the general rule. But as the PBKs started giving me hints about the advance knowledge, I initially opposed them a lot, but when I started reading murlis and avyakta vanis deeply and found the relevant murli points which the PBKs were quoting or referring, then I became very interested. And as Shivsena bhai said, throughout my years as a BK, I always longed to meet Shivbaba in the same form as BK used to meet Shivbaba through Brahma Baba and Mamma Saraswati. So, when I came to know that Shivbaba is practically present on Earth, I too was very much anxious to meet him.

Since I had opposed the PBKs due to ignorance in the initial days of getting the advance knowledge, it should have been difficult for me to become ready to visit Kampil to meet Baba. But when I developed faith on the practical role of Shivbaba based on my own churnings and research (with the hints given by the PBKs), I even wrote letters to Baba and got prompt replies. Since I could not go to meet Baba immediately after developing faith on Baba due to my loukik obligations and responsibilities, I started giving the message to others. And when I actually underwent the bhatti and met Baba and Mamma, I too was on cloud nine (as correctly stated by Shivsena bhai).

But when I returned after meeting Baba, I was aghast at the changed behaviour of the BK teachers and fellow BKs. As far as I know, I had never caused any hurt to any BK teacher or fellow BK during my entire years as a BK. I respected and loved everyone and this love was also always reciprocated. I cannot reveal about my contribution, if any to the Godly service as a BK as it is against the Shrimat. But all this experience came to a nought just because of my undergoing the advance course. The overflowing love and affection of BKs turned into neglect, anger and disrespect by the BKs (especially the teachers, who would not even like to see my face). I was immediately banned by the centre incharge of the BK centre where I had been attending classes for years together.

Since then I have never stepped into that centre nor felt any need to do so even in my dreams. Then I thought that since I had very close and good relationships with the BK teachers of the other centres of the same city, I should give them the Godly message. But as I stepped into a BK centre where the daily class was going on, the concerned BK teacher stopped the murli class abruptly and publicly insulted me and I was warned by the powerful brothers of that centre to immediately leave otherwise face physical torture. And all this happened without my having uttered a single word. And after that I did not step into any BK centre in the several years as a PBK. I have no regrets for this experience nor any ill feelings towards the souls instrumental for that. But I really feel sad when I think of the result of their actions, not against me but my fellow PBKs, some of whom have even been physically and mentally tortured by certain BKs.

After that I only tried to give message to such BKs at their homes who would welcome us. Initially I used to think that after being busy in the BK service for so many years what would I do alone with a few PBKs scattered very far away. But as Shivsena bhai has said that the advance knowledge is so fascinating and engrossing that I never got any spare time. In fact I became more busy in the Godly service day by day. Had I remained a BK I would have got stuck up in the daily squabbles of the BKs, the inherent divisions, the heirarchy, the service restrictions. There is a proverb in Hindi called "Koop mandook" i.e. a frog in the well. As a BK, although it is allowed to do service of the entire world through your mind, but I would have been bound to a limited field of service physically. But as a PBK, the entire universe is a field of service, not just mentally but also physically. Now I have a real Godly family, where there are neither Iron chains nor the golden chains. Now the entire world is a family for me in the real sense, even if they are BKs/PBKs/non-BKs. Now I and all my fellow PBKs are free birds flying on the cloud nine.

I wish to add that I have no ill feeling towards the BKs for whatever treatment that they meted out to me after I became a PBK. I have become a PBK purely for the sake of meeting Shivbaba and getting the advance knowledge and to do world service not out of any hatred towards the BKs for the violations of Shrimat committed by them. At the same time I am indebted to the BKs for having laid a strong foundation of dharana and seva.
With malice towards none,
With regards,
Arjuna

Jim · Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 9 Location: UK

Dear Khormoz bhai

Both Shivsena bhai and Arjuna bhai have a long history in gyan. This is the account of someone at the other end of the scale with only a few years experience in gyan.

I heard of the Bks less than 5 years ago. I took the BK course and found it hard to believe but after 6 months or so I went to a murli and immediately felt this was something totally different - although I studied all the religions - God's here somewhere I thought. Although I didn't really understand much I was so impressed by the wonderful brothers and sisters that I felt if I followed their instructions I would find the truth they obviously had found. So I became a "full on" 7 days a week BK.

In Madhuban 3 years later I noticed the many differences in the interpretation of Baba's teachings by various teachers. I became aware that many seniors ignored the instructions from Dadi Kumarka and the disagreements and friction between seniors were obvious even from their conduct on stage. I know this is "par for the course" in all organisations but I thought the BKs would be different - my rose tinted spectacles were clearing. On returning home I buckled down to correcting my errant thinking in accordance with advice from my Sister in charge.

A few months later I was looking through BK websites and found one of the sites made by an Advance Party member. I read it for a few minutes and found it sad/annoying that anyone would say anything bad about the BKs - who at least as far as my own country was concerned I felt to be near infalliable. I thought "here's just some group who want their man to be God - Shankar Party, Vishnu Party, what else will they concoct?".

A few weeks later I re-visited the PBK website and really read it. I had not even considered most of the questions it raised about the BK explanation of gyan. The version of the story of the yagya was so different from the BKs but it seemed complete and logical and true. Most of the website information went over my head but questions like - why did Baba keep saying everyday in the murli right up until 1969;

"the biggest blunder is to make Krishna God of the Gita"

if it related to the Copper Age?

Could Baba's murli possibly be so irrelevant to speak so often of the Copper Age? It didn't seem likely. And then as a BK I of course knew Baba (DLR) was to become Krishna and although BKs don't refer to him as the Krishna soul, it's a small step to make - don't make Dada Lekhraj God of the Gita - or in other words, the main chariot.

So feeling there was something electrifying in the PBK explanations I spent several days studying the website and then several more days with a PBK in my country. A few weeks later I went to Kamphill and did the 7 days advanced course. The knowledge was absolutely spell binding. By the time I returned to my centre they knew where I had been. After a few days I was banned from returning to the centre. I don't think I had said anything inflamatory in class. I had, when asked just related some advanced knowledge to my Sister in charge in private.

Even though so many pointers to the Father have been edited out of the sakar murlis, if you know what Baba is trying say, there are still some references there. However I doubt if I would have figured out that there is another chariot without the pointers given by PBKs / the website.

My experience is that as soon as I started to think, rather than just accept what the seniors said, then the whole BK story began to unravel.

Om shanti
Jim bhai