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XBK Chat (unofficial archive)
A former meeting place for past members of Brahma Kumaris
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Atma
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 98
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 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject: Testimony of a former member of Brahma Kumaris |
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Here is an article by a former BK. We had tried to get it here previously, but it was not freely available. Now it is. It appears on Reachout Trust's website. Here is the link:
http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/testimony/brahmaanon.htm
Emphases in bold are mine. Feedback and comments welcome. Now, here is the article:
| Quote: | AN EXPERIENCE OF THE BRAHMA KUMARIS WORLD SPIRITUAL UNIVERSITY (ORGANISATION) - known also as Raj Yoga
At the request of the writer of this testimony no names are given however the original is held at head office.
Lured by their offer of "peace in a peace-less world" I entered Brahma Kumaris out of curiosity, and a desire to find a philosophy that made some kind of sense in a world posing very difficult questions. Brahma Kumaris ran a series of seven short introductory lessons through which the student would learn a basic belief system, which they assured would bring total peace of mind.
I had looked briefly into eastern religions when I had failed to grasp Christianity as a teenager, and picked up on their ideas very quickly. It was a "bitter-sweet" time, because on one hand I felt I had at last stumbled upon something that seemed to make a great deal of sense; but on the other I was shown, on their "god" inspired time charts, that we all had very little time left to live - as a parent of small children this was very distressing. I recall being advised not to get too attached to the children, because they probably had only about 2 years to live; this was about 13 years ago!
Had these people been fools there would be no need to take them, or their claims seriously. However, they tended to be some of the most genuine and intelligent people I had come across. Their philosophy fitted together like a perfectly complete jig-saw, and they seemed to have a genuine desire to help people cope with everyday pressures and ultimately their death in the soon approaching world collapse and destruction.
The belief in one's imminent death has very strange effects, and it was only the hundreds of hours of meditation and the numbing effect of resignation to the unchangeable that enabled a student to remain functional and level-headed. The only thing to add to that was the need to believe one had a place in the new heavenly "Golden Age" to come.
To be honest, in the beginning I was more an observer than a true participant but the evidence mounted and you might say the brainwashing intensified until I saw no alternative but to believe. Even in hind sight it is safe to say that theirs is an absolutely masterly concept, appearing faultless in its design and pure ingenuity!
Students were of all ages and cultural backgrounds, and as such we were shown that by closely following the various disciplines we would gradually purify our own souls, in order to qualify at death, to reincarnate into a new and perfect body within the Golden Age that would follow the worlds (and universe) destruction.
Failure or back sliding would automatically result in one being reincarnated into a miserable and toilsome existence when the world cycle had moved once again into violence and pollution etc.
All the foundational disciplines of self-control, non-violence, non-materialism, loving and caring for others had to be followed, (which was not a bad thing) but then students were advised to become detached emotionally from husbands, wives, children and friends etc. Hobbies, pastimes, sports and general interests were not strongly discouraged but became automatically pointless under the new circumstances. All and any previous faiths or beliefs were totally undermined leaving the student nothing to hold on to other than the Brahma Kumaris' doctrine. True followers had to be vegetarian, teetotal and celibate even within marriage.
Students could meditate for several hours a day and attend sittings where the "murlis" would be read to them. These were the channelled teachings and instructions obtained from their god. Reams of material were obtained when the god takes possession of one of the senior yogis in their HQ in India. He speaks out the information which is then recorded and then sent to all the Brahma Kumaris centres throughout the world.
The information covers all subjects from the mundane to the deepest knowledge of life and the universe, but there is always an emphasis on the coming world destruction and all that entails. Usually the "murli" would end with a word of encouragement for those Golden Age souls destined for pure happiness in the next incarnation.
The Major Prophets were discussed, and Jesus was counted in their number. It was explained that Jesus could never have taken away the sin or bad karma of any other person and this is where the Christian faith had gone wrong. None-the-less Christians were liked and respected, but we were advised not to tell them the truth in case we upset them.
I used every opportunity to ask the senior yogis as many challenging questions as possible, and was never disappointed. They seemed to have, or be able to obtain through meditation great wisdom on all issues. Then something changed. I am not sure why but I began asking questions about Jesus Christ, His 'sinless' nature and resurrection etc. It was then that their response was noticeably naïve, even slightly ridiculous. I was not trying to force any point, as I had very little interest in Christianity, but the obvious inconsistencies were bothering me. About this time, the stress of living under the Brahma Kumaris death sentence, and trying to live a normal life was getting hard to cope with. Hardest of all was trying to associate with others, and their seemingly irrelevant concerns. It was impossible to care if the car was dented or that the coffee was short in the local store, when you believed that death and total destruction lay just around the corner.
The claim that Jesus was "sinless" and had taken away freely all the "bad karma" that I was in the difficult process of burning off myself, seemed very unlikely. Resurrection we were told was impossible, as He would have reincarnated. We were told that if Jesus "suffered" then He must have done something negative in His previous life to have earned that suffering. Quite a dilemma! So when I found a Bible I decided to look for myself and maybe see where Christians had got it all wrong. A few years in the Brahma Kumaris equips a student with a great ability to think and reason in spiritual terms. With this mind set I dug into the New Testament and was almost immediately bowled over by the discovery. I read at every opportunity and I knew a battle had begun. I had no real Christian contacts, had been told that prayer did not work and I had to break through about three years of intensive conditioning if there was any chance that I could accept anything I was discovering. The next 12 months or more was a whirlwind of fears, relief, believing, not believing, revelation, back sliding. I had revelatory dreams, yet was often afraid to sleep because of the dreadful nightmares too. I would have given anything to speak to a former member of Brahma Kumaris but I never found one, and no one else had even the faintest idea of what I was going through.
Gradually the wrestling match came to an end, and I just knew that Jesus was and is exactly who He says He is. I do not claim to fully understand the immensity of God's act of loving salvation, but my own limited understanding knows that it is true; that the Bible is God's Word and that the "small quiet voice" tells me to believe and enjoy!
It was a long time before I stopped thinking like a Brahma Kumaris (Raj Yogi) but my course was set. There were even times when I wondered what had come of Christianity, had I joined a sinking ship? My first experience of Church was a locked door on a wet winter's night. Then a small gathering of old people that had no concept of my position. But I prayed, and believed and soon found a real Church.
I shall be ever grateful for the loving welcome I received in that Church, and all that followed, but even there I found it hard to explain the "mindset" I was still in the process of changing. I mention this only to remark how important it is that organisations such as Reachout Trust exist. I only wish I had known about them then!!
Lastly I wish to point out that I believe the followers of the Brahma Kumaris are sincere in their belief and aims. There is no evidence that they are being robbed of their money or possessions. The leaders truly believe they are working to secure souls for a new age of heaven on Earth. Every one I met was intelligent, sober, usually kindly very "gentlemanly" and self controlled and selfless. They had mastered many virtues that a Christian could respect. However, behind the scenes, the Bible warns us that this is something very mysterious, and well worth avoiding.
By far the biggest difficulty a former member of Brahma Kumaris has to overcome is this - the Brahma Kumaris religion encompasses all other faiths both major and minor, by giving them a limited place within the time cycle of human history. So when a student is attracted by Christianity they have to overcome their beliefs that they are simply transferring their soul into the mere 2000 relatively peace less years of Christian history. Here they believe they will remain trapped within identically repeating time cycles for all eternity and will never experience heaven. They must believe in the kingdom of heaven that Jesus taught and promised, which is utterly opposed to all they have been lead to believe. Indeed a conversion or return to any faith will pose the same problem. This problem is without doubt the hardest obstacle to cross in any rescue.
Lastly it is likely that people will always explore unusual or alternative belief systems, and maybe that is a good thing. All people should be free to form their own opinions and to explore, just as they should be free to explore unusual parts of the world. However just as in all exploration people sometimes get lost or hurt, and will need some first aid:
That then, is my desire. I have no further interest in the Brahma Kumaris other than to give a little "first aid" to those that have been hurt. To this end I hope my testimony and general observation and conclusions may help.
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uddhava
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Paramdham
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Testimony of a former member of Brahma Kumaris |
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| Atma wrote: |
Emphases in bold are mine. Feedback and comments welcome. Now, here is the article: |
| Quote: | I was shown, on their "god" inspired time charts, that we all had very little time left to live - as a parent of small children this was very distressing. I recall being advised not to get too attached to the children, because they probably had only about 2 years to live; this was about 13 years ago!...[b]The belief in one's imminent death has very strange effects,
the stress of living under the Brahma Kumaris death sentence...[/b] |
Personally I never subscribed to a literal view of the coming apocalypse, but I can see how this belief can cause problems. Millenarianism, the belief in the impending end of the world, is a common religious theme. Jesus Christ expected the world to end within his generation. Two thousand years later, some of his followers are still waiting, while others have dropped this belief.
| Quote: | | It was impossible to care if the car was dented or that the coffee was short in the local store, |
I am with the BKs on this one - such things are not important. 
| Quote: | | Gradually the wrestling match came to an end, and I just knew that Jesus was and is exactly who He says He is. I do not claim to fully understand the immensity of God's act of loving salvation, but my own limited understanding knows that it is true; that the Bible is God's Word and that the "small quiet voice" tells me to believe and enjoy! |
I find this a bit strange - is the author suggesting that BK beliefs are bizarre while her new Christian beliefs are not? 
| Quote: | | I prayed, and believed and soon found a real Church. I shall be ever grateful for the loving welcome I received in that Church, and all that followed, |
Shalom, Om Shanti, I hope she finds what she is looking for.
| Quote: | | Lastly I wish to point out that I believe the followers of the Brahma Kumaris are sincere in their belief and aims. |
I agree.
| Quote: | | However, behind the scenes, the Bible warns us that this is something very mysterious, and well worth avoiding. |
Atma I'm not sure why you've highlighted this bit - does the bible carry much weight in these here parts?
| Quote: | | Lastly it is likely that people will always explore unusual or alternative belief systems, and maybe that is a good thing. |
OK is she talking about BK or Christianity here? 
| Quote: | | All people should be free to form their own opinions and to explore, just as they should be free to explore unusual parts of the world. However just as in all exploration people sometimes get lost or hurt, and will need some first aid: |
Ah yes, the quest for Truth - Christians and ex-Christians, BKs XBKs and PBKs and many many others. Such is this unlimited drama  |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Dear Atma,
Omshanti. In order to have a fruitful discussion on the testimony of the former BK reproduced above by you, it needs to be clarified if you fully agree with the views expressed by that former BK or if you have presented the testimony only for the information of the members, because I personally feel that it would not be proper to comments made by a person, when he himself is not available for discussion.
With regards,
Arjuna |
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Atma
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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arjuna,
The former BKs "testimony" was presented here primarily for the information of other XBKchat members, who were then invited to give their comments and feedback. Every day, hundreds of books and articles are reviewed and commented on by specialists and laymen. Does that mean that they only do so when the writer is "available for discussion"? I don't think so. As some wit asked, what are two things that everyone has? Answer: an asshole and an opinion.
Welcome to the real (and still free) world "prince".
Uddhava wrote:
| Quote: | Quote:
| Quote: | | However, behind the scenes, the Bible warns us that this is something very mysterious, and well worth avoiding. |
Atma I'm not sure why you've highlighted this bit - does the bible carry much weight in these here parts? |
Whatever I highlighted, throughout the "testimony", was mainly to draw attention to the main facets of the piece, so that someone reading it could quickly scan it and get the gist of the writer's experience and opinions. The highlighting therefore functions as a link or bridge, to facilitate comprehension of the article.
No, Christianity and the Bible are not central to my outlook but, clearly, they have become central to the former BK who wrote the "testimony". So the sentence you have alluded to was highlighted by me because of its importance to the original writer, not because it is important to me. However, I wish that he / she had gone one to quote the passage(s) from the Bible that back up the assertion....or at least gave us a reference, so that we could look it up. As it is, the statement | Quote: | | the Bible warns us that this is something very mysterious, and well worth avoiding. |
is bald and amorphous. |
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Paul
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Atma,
Good to see that you're alive and kicking.........butt
I came across two telling posts, by "Anonymous", on this message board:
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/751.html?1106597636
This post:
| Quote: | | Whilst it is true that the Brahma kumaris have never had reports of abuse made against them, that's not to say that they are, in that case, an organisation which will never cause a lot of damage to many people. I have heard of innumerable cases of people who have had to undergo intensive psychiatric treatment for many years as a result of adopting the Brahma kumaris world view even for a limited time. This is an organisation which is to be avoided by anyone who believes in the right to free speech and freedom of expression. |
And this post:
| Quote: | | I have personally lost one of my dearest friends to the 'hands' of the Brahma Kumaris. Not because of any bad behaviour of their group, but simply because of the intrusive discipline it brings about. The norms and rules to be followed are so strict (no meat, no sex, no alcohol, no attachment to anyone), the fact that your family is only your biological one... a lifestyle so narrow that you ultimately lose any space to share every day life with 'ordinary' people. |
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hanuman
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:36 am Post subject: Ex BK Testimony |
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Paul,
Thank you for sharing with us the experiences of a brother who choose to travel along the path in the BK boat or to surf the Ocean using the BK surfboard. What a ride! However, it is a typical ride and an atypical ride. It is typical because most Western BKs have had similar experiences as the bother related. Atypical are components of the experience because different individuals react in unique ways when the encounter the rocks, ice bergs, storms as they sail the Ocean in the BK boat.
The so called obstacles are there. How a soul reacts to the obstacles depends on their spiritual constitution, i.e. their karma and will.
A few months before I came into gyan, I had a few visions of Jesus Christ.
As a BK, I would continue to have visions of Jesus and many of the majors players in the Bible. It did not trouble me. My parents, however, were concerned. They consulted with a seer who told them that I was to be left alone, since according to the seer, I had incarnations in Egypt. I was therefore comfortable with the idea that I am a soul who had roles in the four ages in the cycle and was not too bothered with simply becomimg a royal person in the GA and SA.
The information on Jesus in the murlis, though gems, were limited.
The Edgar Cayce's foundation, ASSOCIATION for Research and Enlightment (ARE) is one of the most reliable sources of data on Jesus and Atlantis. The information from the ARE will answer many questions on the life of Yeshua Ben Nazaret. Incidentally the Essenes used a eight pointed star and carried a mala of 108 beads. They knew that the significance of 8 and 108 orginated from India. Yeshua from the time of his physical birth was identified as a master and was trained by the Essenes at Mount Carmel. He was then sent, by his teachers at Mount Carmel, to study the teachings of the Orient. I will post a series of articles on Yeshua and Atlantis for discussions.
On the journey of surfing the Ocean or sailing the Ocean, there are bridges to cross. The brother mentions many in his testimony. We as xBKs, PBKs and BKs have had to cross those aquatic bridges.
There was a great one I had to cross in the winter of 1977. I was about to matriculate to university for veterinary studies. I was in Madhuban when there was tension in the air about the end of the world after January 18. Some BKs had urged me to give up my academic pursuits. Others encouraged me to continue with my academic studies. I KNEW IN MY SOUL AND FROM BAAP DADA and NATURE THAT THERE WOULD NOT BE ANY DESTRUCTION IN 1977  . Therefore, I did not give up my academic quest and never looked at my interest in science and medicine as a diversion from gyan. In Madhuban, I also discovered that BaapDada also never regarded my interest in science and medicine as maya. THEY gave me the green light to pursue my academic studies a few weeks prior to the expected day of destruction.
There were always close calls during my studies and even now. Some examples are the Soviet invasion of Afganisthan in the winter of 1980. I was in Madhuban at that time. 9/11 is another example.
I feel that it is best to enjoy life, have a balanced life and follow universal principles to the best an individual is able to inculcate. Live, love and help others with a light heart.
_________________
Om Shanti,
To my brothers and sisters.
Love to you all,
Errol bhai |
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Tete
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:37 pm Post subject: Ex BK Testimony |
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Atma,
So, correct you are in that you did post it here before and I missed it. Do, you know if this XBK found this site since your posting? Did you send a message via their service to this XBK? Have you seen any further postings by this XBK?
I found this site (XBKChat) after the Prophet of a cult/sect killed his former sitter and the major news papers did stories about former members and the troubles they were having after leaving the cults/sects.
I even had an attorney (some one I know) do a search in 2004 and he mainly came up with sites of the BK organization. My sister who works in the Library had all her colleagues help in searching and no XBKChat popped out of the State computer.
So, forgive me if I was all excited about the find. 
Atma wrote:
Regards,
Tete |
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John
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Tete
I think any organisation will seem different from the outside as it will the inside.
There are many different people and they will have different reactions to religions/cults/spiritual paths.
A cult in one sense could be a new religion starting, because didn't they all start small with an intense following.Different teachings, new ideas to what were around at the time.
Did christianity start off as a cult?
If Brahma Kumaris is a 'cult' what is there intention?
I think the word cult has got a bad name and therefore implying BKs as a cult
could be seen as a way of tagging and dismissing it. |
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Tete
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject: Ex BK Testimony |
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John,
Points well taken. I was restating what was in the news article and the "lingo" they used. My husband for his own reasons doesn't talk about this subject with me. I want to explore it until I feel I understand it and so I can explain it to my child when she asks. I don't want to pretend it doesn't exist.
When I was young I had a visitor from England "John" a vegan guru starting some new religion. I was one of his stops as he read about my anti war believes (membership in this and that). My friends and I all gathered around heard what he had to say and all in the spirit of human kind. He gave me his picture along with all his blessings (as one of the first to hear his message across the ocean) and good wishes. It was light hearted and "John" never made a second trip.
Given were I live I have seen many things (location, location). I just wasn't aware of all the BK beliefs.
Regards,
Tete |
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the prisoner
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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As a footnote to the above discussion, perhaps a comparison of Christian and BK ideas of salvation is useful.
From St Paul's letter to the Galatians :
| Quote: | 10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e] 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."[f] 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
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| Quote: | 23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus
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What this appears to say is that life subject to the original law of Moses is a curse (and is probably impossibly difficult). This "covenant" between God and the descendants of Abraham is to be replaced by a new covenant whereby it is simply required to have faith in Jesus.
The BK critique of this would probably be something like :
1) spiritual laws are fixed and cannot be suspended - even God is subject to spiritual law
2) karma cannot be transferred to someone else as that would be unjust
3) there is no equivalence between faith on one hand and the bad karma one has accumulated on the other. These 2 things don't seem interchangable.
4) the deal is the same, irrespective of the amount of bad karma involved, therefore it is unjust
The comment "behind the scenes, the Bible warns us that this is something very mysterious, and well worth avoiding" perhaps refers to the following well-known quote from Matthew 7:15
| Quote: | Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
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_________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Mark Twain |
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Atma
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Ex BK Testimony |
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| Tete wrote: | Atma,
Do, you know if this XBK found this site since your posting? Did you send a message via their service to this XBK? Have you seen any further postings by this XBK?
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Tete,
Negative to all three questions. Perhaps it would be a good thing if you tried to contact him / her via a message. You never know - it could bear fruit. Just a suggestion. |
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Tete
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: Contact |
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Atma,
I did send a message via their service and I don't believe they passed it on to he/she XBK.
I am now the daily message system about the bible/verses etc., from the site!
I tried................
Regards,
Tete |
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Tete
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: Ex BK Testimony |
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Atma,
I was sent an e-mail and they have a new page:Overview of Brahma Kumaris
http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/othergrp/brahma.htm
| Quote: | WHY DO PEOPLE JOIN AND WHY IS IT HARD TO LEAVE?
People join usually out of curiosity, and lured by claims to provide methods of Yoga, meditation for peace of mind, and general wellbeing.
Why is it difficult to leave? First, it must be said that many do leave quite quickly and easily because it does not fit the 'yoga and candles' type of image they may have expected. There is too much study for many, but a long-term student may find it hard to shake off or replace the belief system - it is very convincing.
A student believes that to abandon the system will ensure they are trapped in an eternal repeating life cycle of misery and hardship. All other faiths will have been discredited. Hobbies and general interests may have been lost, relationships may have been lost or badly damaged. The student is likely to feel he/she knows a deep dark truth about the immediate future, but has no one to confide in, or even take them seriously.
Also they believe that during meditation, God's rays of purity radiate from them destroying evil in the world. To stop meditation means one is doing nothing to change the evil world into the new Golden Age where all suffering has passed.
Some students may come to the conclusion that if the central spiritual source of Raj Yoga is something or someone other than God; they may be in great danger by leaving.
The sheer intensity of study and meditation, makes trying to return to a normal life very difficult. A student may find nothing to replace this. If they still believe the end of the world is rapidly approaching, normal life after leaving is very difficult. |
John they now mention PBKs:
| Quote: | 3. There is another group that goes under the name of "Prajapita Brahma Kumaris" and is made up of former Brahma Kumaris members. There is reported animosity between the two groups because the 'Prajapita' see themselves as being more 'advanced' in their beliefs. An in depth summary can be found at this website but in summary they teach:
1. Brahma Baba was the vehicle through which the 'Supreme Soul' played the part of the World Mother (Eve).
2. The part of the World Father is being played out in our day (April 2005) by a person in New Delhi. |
One their site the link website links up to the PBK website. There are still no posts on their forum in regards to BKs or PBKs as of today that I could find?
Regards,
Tete |
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Mr Green
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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I think the BKs are rapidly becoming 'bad', as they choose to consistently deny responsibility for the behaviour of their members, probably believing that god is running it through the 'instruments', therefore any bad that becomes their members is the result of their own karma etc!!!!!
They also are completely unable to accept that any bad has happened as a result of their teachings, so you can't really call them bad but certainly highly irresponsible. |
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