XBK Chat (unofficial archive)

Paul · Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 72

"East is east and west is west, and the two will never meet"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought that I would open up this topic, as it actually underlies a lot of the differences of opinion and perspective evident in this forum. Let me say, first of all, that I am mindful of the sensitivities here and in no way do I pander to prejudiced stereotyping. I find that abhorrent. However, that said, I think that there is such a thing as general national or cultural traits in different geographic areas of the world....and India is no exception. The Indian traits, or "sanskars" if you like are, to my mind, both positive and negative.

Looking at the positive:

* Respect for elders.

* Strong family values.

* Thrift.

* Patriotism.

* Being God fearing.

Now, looking at the other side of the equation:

* Realism is not a strong point. Just look at a few Hindi movies and you'll see what I mean. Was it Karl Marx who remarked about the "infantile Asian mind"?

* Unity is a problem. They moan and groan about the Muslim (and other) invaders and pillagers of the past. The fact is that if they were more unified as a society they could have easily withstood those assaults. But, instead, the Brahmin sniffed his nose and said "Defending is not my task, that for the Kshatriya"....and the Vaishyas were too busy being merchants and making money to care about national defence. The caste system itself perpetuates disunity and inequality.

* Complete and unquestioned devotion to a 'guru'. I have listed this as a negative because the soul surrenders its autonomy and lets another think for it and decide what's best for it.

There have been some discussions in this forum about prehistoric creatures. Someone I know who went to Mount Abu a few years ago said he could not find a single book on that subject in the Madhuban bookstores. Now, why isn't that surprising? Scan a thousand murlis and the only comment you'll see is this" "Forget the aspect of the animals". Now, on such a major topic, is that satisactory to enquiring, logical minds? Apparently, to many Indians it is. The same person I mentioned, who went to Abu, said that as he was departing, he was waiting at Abu Road train station and, seated on the bench next to him, was an Indian engineer, resident in the US. He brought up the topic with this engineer and was told: "You know, this question of dinosaurs is only raised by people outside India" And this is coming from an engineer!! The statement may be right, but what does it tell you?

Someone in this forum said that, after a period of being immersed in things Indian, the Western mind will reassert itself. The facts show this to be true. The French, famously, put it this way: "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" ("The more things change, the more they remain the same")

I have some more thoughts but, for now, I will end here.

zhukov · Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86

isabel · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 39

Interesting thoughts Paul and Zhukov. I think you're right, different societies operate within different ontologies. Westerners are empiracists, hard evidence is the stuff of truth, the measure of all other measures.

Persons in India seem less inclined to find their truths in the material world. In their view, events on earth are driven by a greater spiritual reality. Why bother trying to figure out equations to calculate how rapidly a rock will hit the ground when lobbed off a ten story building, that's superficial stuff. Better to go straight to the source and learn to understand the force that manifests all things on earth. Dinosaurs, incidental, why are those silly Westerners looking in all the wrong places for Truth?

This is my best guess, non-Westerners feel free to correct me.

Though I'm totally hung up on empiracism, I can't say it's gotten myself or the world very far. Empiracism has certainly paved the way to resource exploitation and lead to the development of a dizzying array of stuff for us to spend our lives consuming. Empiracle attempts at understanding and improving human society are dispairingly limited and contradictory though. The post-modernist quagmire it's lead many social theorists into is utterly depressing. Yet useless as I find this ontology, I can't just dismiss the dinosaur bones.

Do you all feel as stranded between systems of knowledge as I? Anyone any luck mitigating this?

Atma · Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 98

Wow Paul....what a post!

kyra · Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 66

a little off topic but relevant to Atmas post. You might find this interesting:
http://brahmakumaris.com.au/php/forum//xbkchat/index.html"gensmall">

hanuman · Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 174

Do you want to know how many religions originated in the West? Many! Many more than the number of faith based religions which can be counted on one hand. Let us not forget the practices of the many nations of red people in pre-Columbian America. How about the Mayans and the Celtic practices?
There must be a distinction between faith based and non-faith based religions.
There is a story which is part of the teachings of the Hopi people. I prefer not to call them Indians. They are not Idians. They are RED PEOPLE. It states that the Great Spirit gave to each of the major ethnic groups special powers for each to use in unity with each other and not against each other.
To the Whites, the Great Spirit gave Fire. To the Blacks, the Great Spirit gave Water. To the Yellow People, including Bharatwasis the Great Spirit gave Wind. To the Red People, the Native Americans, the Great Spirit gave Earth. Today due to the power of fire, there have been many innovations in science and technology.
It is not amazing that the science of blood preservation was developed by Dr. Charles Drew, a black physician and scientist.
To the Red People, the Earth is like a mother, sustaining them.
The Great Spirit was said to have used special stone tablets to symbolize the special powers given to the ethnic groups.
Incidentally, world transformation and a nuclear war is not unique to the BK teachings. The Red People in their RELIGIOUS WRITINGS knew of the Transformation even before Columbus re-discovered the New World! Laughing

The West has to be respected for being the custodian of many spiritual treasures recovered from the Temple of Solomon by the Knights Templars during the Crusades.
For sure BK and non- BK Bharatwasis need to extricate themselves spiritually and socially from the mold of the cast
Cool

system.
_________________
Om Shanti,
To my brothers and sisters.

Love to you all,
Errol bhai