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Can we ever be free?

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Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:10 am    Post subject: Can we ever be free?

I am quite new to post BK life and it is quite difficult sometimes as somedays i am happy to be free from the institution and other days i feel very guilty about leaving Baba. In Murli Baba has said that if you leave you become a traitor. I dislike that and also the threat that i will not come to golden age if i dont follow the brahmin daily timetable etc. Its a bit like torture. I have forgotten what i used to be like, what i used to think about as gyan has absorbed my life for so long. How does one remove the intellects attachment to gyan? Is it possible? I have been trying to think only in this moment of time, the eternal now theory and it is quite helpful but somehow i cant seem to break all ties with the BKs in my mind, i still think about going back one day even though i know this is not good. My main stumbling block is why would avyakt bapdada talk so much about the golden age for so many years? I have been doing alot of research into trance messengers and their messages, many spirits are talking about the same thing. a new age for the world etc. I do believe in the gyan given through brahma and am sure that would have been a very good time to live a BK life, but today? The institution looks as corrupt as most other religious institutions, oh dear.. Crying or Very sad
om shanti

Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:14 pm    Post subject:

Bhagirath, having read your post above, and also your post that was transferred to the general forum, I can see that you have been experiencing considerable mental anguish and guilt. I suppose that for some XBKs that is natural - for a while anyway. I guess the longer one was a BK, and the more committed one was to the path, the stronger those negative feelings can be after leaving.

Out of curiousity, can you give us a rough idea of how long you were a BK? Not exact years, but a range. For example, more than five years, more than ten years, more than fifteen etc. The other thing I would like you to expand on is this: why did you leave the path?
Was there one or multiple factors? Was there a specific incident that turned you off, or a series of events? Did you experience a crisis of faith? Do you think that the "source" may be deceptive? Without naming names, what do you mean by "corruption" in the movement?

I like your point about the eternal present. In fact, I myself practice that. Some time ago I remarked to a practicing BK that "The only time that matters is now. The BKs say everything is fixed and preordained. Yet they keep holding out the carrot of the golden age and urging followers to "make effort" to get a high status in heaven. Well, they can't have it both ways. Using their own paradigm the question can well be asked: Can we change our PAST? Every reasonable person will agree that the past cannot be changed. So whatever we were in the past, we will be again. End of story. Full stop. Of course that does not mean that I accept the 5000 years cyclic scheme. I was just showing how absurd it can be.

Keep sharing with us Bhagirath. We look forward to reading your posts.

Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2004 5:32 am    Post subject:

Hi Bhagirath:

When I left the BKs, I read a book by Pema Chodron called
"When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times."

I highly suggest reading this. Here is a short synopsis:

Book Description
How can we go on living "when things fall apart" – when we are overcome by pain, fear, and anxiety? Pema Chodron’s answer to that question contains some spectacularly good news: there is a fundamental happiness readily available to each one of us, no matter how difficult things seem to be. To find it, according to traditional Buddhist teaching, we must learn to stop running from suffering and instead actually learn to approach it – fearlessly, compassionately, and with curiosity. This radical practice enables us to use all situations, even very painful ones, as means for discovering the truth and love that are utterly indestructible.

So, what Pema Chodron talks about is not running away from the thoughts that disturb us ---- like your thoughts about gyan, but to relax with yourself a bit. This book helped me enormously.

Here's another little tidbit that seems like good advice:

Enlightenment is understanding
that there is nowhere to go,
nothing to do,
and nobody you have to be
except exactly who you're being right now.

--Neale Donald Walsch

Peace - Ifegenia

Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2004 3:38 pm    Post subject:

Welcome Bhagirath, welcome Ifegenia!

Ifegenia, I've really enjoyed following your comments in the main forum. Nice that you're forcing these folks to engage in an intellectual debate!

Bhagirath, it's pretty amazing how deep this stuff penetrates, isn't it? After I first joined, my computer got a virus and I was somewhat panicky..was I being punished for being a traitor? Would a lightening bolt be next? And then later, how on earth had I let myself become someone would buy into this sort of guilt? I was never that type of person before.. What on earth happened to MY powers of discernment?

Anyhow, it's wonderful to have your cyber voices in the forum

Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 4:48 pm    Post subject:

Calling Bhagirath...calling Bhagirath. Come in Bhagirath...over. Calling Bhagirath...calling Bhagirath. Come in Bhagirath...over. Bhagi..you started out so well. Now it looks like you have gone 'quiet'. What happened?...cat got your tongue? Don't sweat it Bhagi...like Isabel said, so far no lightening bolt Smile So return to the forum and respond to the questions you've been asked Smile

Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 6:07 am    Post subject:

ok. Thanks for all the replies to my message. Hope you are all well.
To answer a couple of questions, i left BK life because i started to feel oppressed by it. I do see alot of happiness too, of course, but for me I had had enough. When i said corruption what i meant was with all religions, the material life eventually increases and the level of spirituality decreases. Now, for me, no amount of yoga could change that fact and i did not like what i was seeing. However, this is my opinion and i do hope all BKs everywhere will attain their desire to be complete. What i miss is the Murli and that feeling of joy, but i have had to start seeing my wholeness, happiness, 16 celestial degrees completeness right here right now. So, i suppose i will always have knowledge and probably always use it, how about everyone else. How do you all see yourselves? As BKs with that consciousnessbut living as ex BKs? will you become pBKs (dare i say it ) or maybe return to BK life? I have been a BK for a number of years, more than five, less than 10, and everyone else? we are all endless galaxies and have seen but one star. Wink
om shanti

Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 7:53 pm    Post subject:

ifgenia wrote:
So, what Pema Chodron talks about is not running away from the thoughts that disturb us ---- like your thoughts about gyan, but to relax with yourself a bit.

This is a really good point you've made, ifgenia.

When I was attempting to constantly churn on the positive qualities, i would kind of panic when the old negative thoughts arose, so i would redouble my efforts to churn on the knowledge..but the other thoughts always came back. Now I see the wisdom of just allowing whatever thoughts to happen..and then to pass away. I was certainly running from them before and this kept perpetuating them I think...

Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 12:39 am    Post subject:

A very senior sister used to tell us the idea is not to stop thoughts or run away from them - you can never do this - but to transform them. That was why, when the BKs began service in the West, they used to stress that theirs was not a path of renunciation but one of integration, or living like the lotus flower - rooted in (kaliyugi) society but above its influence.
"Those were the days my friend ..."

Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 14
Location: england

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 1:42 pm    Post subject:

Hi Bhayirath

I understood your intro was that you had left the BKs, its a very heavy experience however I dealt with it in the beginning by believing I would go back, I used guan, what I thought as truth, it felt safe to still be able to contain things, the mystery had been removed, and I thought everything will be ok. I suppose I became a "sleeper" waiting for the signal to return and carry out my task.
Ive experienced long term being a" sleeper"
Now I consider that to be a waste of time! and experience a reality that is my own! call it Make Believe, my intent is to be honest with myself, I accept what feels frightning to me and instead of making it "fluffy" choose to see it for what it is. I give myself rewards for courage. Each day brings a challenge a kind of mystery, and Im responsiable for the way I go.
I wish you well on your new path of self-discovery Bhayirath


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 14
Location: england

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:26 pm    Post subject:

Hi Ian
thanks for that, most welcome easy for me to miss the point.
Remember Baba.

Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Paramdham

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Can we ever be free

howiemac wrote:

I too have recently left BK life..

Dear howiemac,

I don't know whether you like the term 'ex-BK' but your post is a very good expression of a familiar point of view.


The Murli, particularly the sakkar versions should be taken with a large pinch of salt - Brahma Baba liked to speak in extremes - everything is very black and white - he liked to exaggerate enormously to drive particular points home. He was talking to Indians generally from a Hindu background.

Those of us from different backgrounds tend to take the sakkar Murli's too literally.

What about the age of the cycle being 5000 years - do you think this is literally true or exaggeration to be taken with a pinch of salt?
Site Admin

Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject:

We have deleted two posts made under this topic - one by Howiemac and the other by wahl. As the description of this exclusive "XBKs only" forum clearly states, permission to post here is by invitation of the Administrator only. Until and unless you have been specifically invited by the administrator to post in this exclusive XBKs only forum, please refrain from doing so. You are free to post in all other forums of XBKchat

Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject:

gyaniwasi wrote:
A very senior sister used to tell us the idea is not to stop thoughts or run away from them - you can never do this - but to transform them. That was why, when the BKs began service in the West, they used to stress that theirs was not a path of renunciation but one of integration, or living like the lotus flower - rooted in (kaliyugi) society but above its influence.

I don't believe that 'transformation' is necessary. THAT was what was causing my trouble IMO...the constant "churning" of Positive thoughts to such an extent that this thought loop I had playing of BK thoughts/teachings/dogma/whatever you want to call it eventually becaming utterly meaningless thru sheer repetition as I had to do it so much every day.

You know how if you repeat any word/phrase often enough it ceases to have any meaning Rolling Eyes

I find it MUCH better to use simple mindfulness meditation and just Monitor my thoughts from a position of pure observation, without labelling them "good" or "bad". That way you are no longer identifying with any thought and you can have negative ones and let them be OK without affecting you and withou the need to "replace" any with BK "knowledge" over and over and over ad infinitum Mr. Green only to suspect in the end all you are doing is rather effectively brainwashing yourself.

I am now relieved I was told not to come back. This was the best thing the BKs could have told me Very Happy
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