XBK Chat (unofficial archive)

kyra · Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 66

you know even as i write this im really sad because i dont know why i feel lost without a label which is rediculous really because i actually hate labeling people especially someone like me who changes so much anyway. so i know im not a brahmin anymore so i still dont buy an onion when im shopping.. WHY??

what the heck is an onion going to do to me really? I didnt kill it you know. So ok maybe my breath might smell there are worse things I suppose. So now im an XBK another label since I still do by habit these stupid things ive been doing for years and I wonder will i ever lose my sense of guilt when I want to be close to my boyfriend. Its not like im hurting anyone else so why do I feel like im going to be punished for this. each time am i accumulating karma???

oh and this karma thing has got my brain fried. always lived by this karmic account thing, balancing each action to make sure I cancel out the bad and when bad stuff happens anyway I think oh hell how bad could i have been before this birth to put up with this. so okay most days are much better and this is a bad day. dont get me wrong i really like some of the stuff I learnt but i dont understand why they teach some of this stupid stuff to make us feel so guilty and sad because i dont agree (so then i think maybe im weak and giving in to Maya). i was so stupid for believing it, learning it and practicing it and now its a habit that i find difficult to break.

i guess most of the time i have a good grip on things it just annoys me to still feel so lost in between the two worlds.

is it just me or does anyone else have these bad days when you battle with yourself like this.

thanks for letting me rant.
your friend, kyra

gyaniwasi · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167

Don't beat up on yourself kyra Smile

What you're going through is a part of 'withdrawal effects'. The time varies. Keep talking to us; someone is always listening/viewing and understands. If it's any comfort, check out BKry's post on 'onions and garlic'. We have to keep reawakening ourselves about what we expect in our hearts from 'God' - a strange reversal of the Kumbakharan figure we were told about, don't you think Surprised

.

If you feel ready for it, check out some lit. on programming and deprogramming in cults. Ifegenia has offered us some advice in this. You might also find Captive Hearts Captive Minds. Freedom and Recovery from Cults and Abusive Relationships by Tobias & Lalich interesting.

Garlic seems to have a lot of health benefits too - all part of 'God's wonderful creation'! Take care.
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"Those were the days my friend ..."

kyra · Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 66

thanks for your reply gyaniwasi i was beginning to think maybe i should have kept that post to myself

isabel · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 39

daviniamaher1 · Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 10

it is probably because it is more deep rooted than we realise and probably something we have carried for many births not just this one.
what many tend to forget is that food cooked with bad vibes is likely to do more harm to Cool

than the onion and garlic, Don't feel guilty about it because really it is just the taste that you have acquired

Mr Green · Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 41

it is bloomin hard to break free of the conditioning, I myself still carry on 'disciplines' that I never understood like eating an onion Laughing

funny when you think about it, I haven't been near a centre now for 2-3 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exclamation

gyaniwasi · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167

You know, it occurs to me that for many of us it was the first time we really gave our hearts away to 'the Supreme Beloved - God Himself.' And once you give your heart away like that it's almost impossible to take it back. I'm remembering some lines from Rod Mckuen's poetry "..once you say you love somebody you can't take it back .. it means forever .. always .."

The real problem with us is that even after leaving Gyan we continue to dwell on it (and within it) for years because it remains the closest we have come to experiencing God. That means that we have never really lost the faith that it is/was an encounter with God. We invested that personal Faith with varying degrees of trust. For those of us who believed with all our heart, we gave up everything to "follow shrimat"; it became a Law written into the very core of our being. On 'leaving gyan' then, the requirement for freedom is/was to renounce or withdraw that complete faith in the belief that the 'Shiv Baba' of the Brahma Kumaris is the identical person of the Universal "God Almighty." That step can be extremely challenging if the level of your belief and surrender was complete. Why? Because, I think, the belief has/had become the foundation of your ontological security without which you are lost. Transforming or changing the basis of that security requires great strength and support. Very often we cannot do it alone. We need the support of others who can empathize. That is where I have felt the value of this site. It is a critical support group. If you have been associated with it (or other xBKs) for a long time you might notice an evolution in the beliefs and convictions of xBKs. From a psychologically clinical perspective, an outsider might observe these shifts in perspectives or convictions as evidence of withdrawal from conditioning. The continuing experience of internal conflict might signal that the process is not yet complete. The literature on these matters show that it can last for a short time or for many years, and this is understandable because it is a process of remaking oneself. So cheer up guys, you're not alone. You know, after some 21 years of departure I still feel a bit hesitant when I make myself a three slice sandwich Shocked

Why? Because for years I'd been conditioned by the anecdotes told to us at the centres - "Baba (most likely Brahma Baba) used to say if you you are satisfied with 2 chapatis then it is a sign that you will go to the Golden Age; if it takes 3 to satisfy you then it's a sign you will go to the Silver Age because it means you have not conquered Greed." Many times when I was hungry and needed more I'd restrain myself by the "2 chapati" rule .. how about that for conditioning Laughing

Gy
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"Those were the days my friend ..."

zhukov · Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86

Babbit · Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Posts: 8 Location: UK

I haven't posted for ages but I've been lurking and reading. . .I wasn't sure whether to put this post here or in the main XBK forum.

I miss it sometimes -- I miss the discipline, the friends, the sense of 'family', the moral certainty, the feeling of having a clear higher purpose.

If I sit with those feelings, I know I am romanticising being a BK -- I'm feeling lonely so I lean toward what I want to feel and I don't remember the things I don't miss -- which would be a much longer list!

There is a parallel for me with becoming vegetarian, which I did just before becoming a BK and still am. When I 'miss' meat, I know what I am really missing is in my imagination -- the idea of it, rather than the reality -- if I went out and had a burger, it would not taste anything like I expect. Does that make sense?

It's the same things for the BKs -- missing that feeling of belonging. I struggled so hard by myself before I walked into a BK centre and then it seemed as though I had finally found a support system. But I was wrong.

It's hard to be back on my own again. But it's better. I don't feel I'm making spiritual progress as quickly now as when I was a BK, but perhaps that means that whatever progress I make now is well-earned. But I would think that, wouldn't I?

kyra · Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 66

zhukov · Joined: 10 Apr 2004 Posts: 86

Tete · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 169

Gyaniwasi,

Thank you for you honesty, selfless giving (bearing your emotional self) to others so as to guide them or their loved ones home (back to normalcy). This post came to me as a much needed gift, at a crucial time and is helping some one I love ever so dearly.

Gyaniwasi,

Joel · Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Posts: 102

gyaniwasi · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167

Tete asked:

gyaniwasi · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167

Zhukov said: