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God has some serious issues.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:11 pm    Post subject: God has some serious issues.

I had typed this in the thread of kyra (views) but after re-reading, I thought it was better suited to start a new topic. I think following is essential in sorting things out.

It does indeed require courage to leave (in response to atma). Nonetheless, from my personal experience, if your live your life by your heart, then there is no question of doubt - for me personally that is. I went to it following my heart, and the same thing took me out of it again. But, it could be that you doubt your instinct now because the BK phase seemed so 'wrong' looking back - yet, I think we should realise how much this has (or must!) actually made us more wise and experienced - at least, that's how it feels to me. But for this, one needs to be more than an XBK, you need to be a human being again.

From this angle, it seems to me that I am in a phase of living more and more for today, instead of projecting my thoughts so much in the future like I used to. Every day should be a party -- hey hey, I guess I'm a hard-die BK after all Smile Of course, this is totally different. You can't live with a clean heart in hapinness when in fact you consider yourself superior to all those around you!

I hope that all those religious freaks with all their great "plans' and "visions" of the future will one day realise that they are just ordinary human beings and that they have wasted their precious time here convincing themselves and others to believe in a horrible utopian society based on immoral and inhumane ethics based on impossible systems (nature without violence is impossible). They - ironically so - loose their real self because their hearts can't live today as it is alwyas looking at 'tomorrow'.

"This world is dead", "everyone is impure", "lust is the worst enemy" - .. these are the mantra's that destroy life. A constant sustenance through 'meditation' (it's not meditation) is required to keep the damage from being fatal. We all know that when the "yoga stage" starts to crumble, everything collapses. Then panic arises, together with self-guilt or other pathetic responses, which are even more amplified by these great teachings of "god". Sorry, but I think I'll pass! Every 5000 years, Sir!

It is an ingenious system of mind control which makes you completely dependant on "Him" .. "He" constantly knows how to make you feel guilty - to put the burden of the world on your shoulders - and this in most subtle ways. It takes all you've got in your heart and mind and even more to liberate yourself from this spider's web. But damn, it's worth the fight! You don't need him. I've never looked for something like god to help me or anything. You can easily meditate by yourself in order to be in harmony with yourself and your environment .. and ever better, because you are doing it independently! And no it can never exhaust you, because you are simply riding some kind of harmonious background wave .. instead of believing you're actually receiving some kind of "godly energy" .. I think there is also something seriously wrong with having love for god - whatever that means. No one can love god, even if he exists at all. It is already a great achievement to have pure love for your friends, family and life partner if you have one. All that love for "Baba" (stupidest call name EVER) is something in the head, not in the heart. Those dadi's with their idiotic ramblings about Baba Baba Baba, even back then, I found it to be idiotic. Not only have they messed up their own lifes, they actually travel around the world to make sure other people keep messing up their lives as well! With love in their head, a heart turned blind in faith and nothing to live for, they are a dangereous tool of the cult.

Let me end by saying that I don't care if things will happen in the future such as the "god" of the Murli's has predicted. It doesn't matter for me at all .. I don't want to be part of it, it's that simple. Not only would that golden age be a nightmare with an endless tirade of dullness, I simply don't like most of the people that follow these principles. I will never feel sorry for my choices now, as they are true from the heart. What's more: I'm becoming a much better person since I left - though there's still much work to do hihi Very Happy certainly with addicts of BK knowledge .. they really tend to irritate me. If only they would listen one time with their heart.

Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject:

yes it is much better to live each day than to constantly be looking for this reward BKs are always being promised.

i think, well live a good life, be good to others and be good to yourself too, and if there is something after you die and you get it because you lived a good life then grand and if you dont well you still didnt lose anything.

BKs are such silly people, they practice the things they preach are bad. noone wants to know me now i am not a BK and yet they say not to judge, it is all really stupid when you think about it.

i feel so sorry for those BKs, those poor misled souls.

Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject:

So much for the bra(m)in wash. I had those same thoughts Kevin, I quite like your rebelness.Of course it's a control program design to stuck people, not to set them free. You get in by your heart, but then you stop having one, once this one now has to be forgotten cause all of the sudden Maya can interfere so the way you supposely recognised the father can't recognize nothing else cause it goes against it.. But there is a very good side in this experience for all of us, at least for me it made me more mature, more sure of who I am and want to be it also helped me realize that I didn't need no one to tell me how to find the truth that I always knew, I just didn't trust my way of knowing. I think that the best way for Maya to trick us all is to pretend to be god and put us all freakin scared dreaming that we have to fight her... when in fact she is the one in charge all the time. Evil can fight good but the good doesn't need to fight evil, cause there is no illusion. Sorry to bring god to the talk again, but I think that the thing I personaly see as being God, of course you can call it something else -the Devil maybe, Is in fact really testing those that have more love for the truth, than for a god pretending to be God that buys you that you only need to be good and do whatever he says to go to heaven.. where the hell we've heard that before??? This is pre'school for souls who still haven't figured out what is really important and that it is all inside them, everything they need. We are already gods, all of us. I guess it's like some of us take the wrong pill and keep dreaming that they have awaken. Matrix inside the matrix. It's all about control..

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject:

kikas, I know what you mean, because I have been suggesting this already in the past .. it could all be a test of 'god', but that doesn't really matter, now does it? If the answer is yes, then I'm sure he'll let us know some day Wink
but it could be anything: a spirit with great powers who doesn't know better, an alien with advanced technology for mind controle, the devil himself playing out his different roles in the world Confused Will the future tell or not?
Let's not waite for it.

Reading the posts of those BKs and pBKs, I think we as xBKs all feel the same and that is thay they sound really really wrong and twisted. It's like looking at your own past (though there can be important differences, of course).

Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:48 am    Post subject:

Kevin, Kyra, Kikas: I agree with what are all saying, but I wish I wasn't having such a negative reaction to the BKs and the beliefs. Don't you sometimes wish you could just say 'om shanti' and move on without the struggle and reaction that seems to be occurring (and apologies if I am assuming that you are experiencing something you are not)?

I don't really know how to express what is in my head, but it's along the lines of 'how could it have been so important to me, so central to my life and the way I lived for it to be so invalid and discredited now?'. I recognise that my intensely negative reaction to the system helped me to break away, but I wonder whether (as with many things) the truth lies in the middle ground, and where the heck that middle ground is in this case!

Sometimes I feel very upset when I start to appreciate the extent of brainwashing that I inflicted upon myself. And now, like you, I want no part of it but feel that I must understand why I wanted it so much at one time. At the same time, I think one of the most useful things that I learned in the BKs was the futility of trying to answer the question 'Why?' when the best thing to do is be in the present moment and move on. If I knew 'why', would it really help? Do you have any insight into 'why'?

If I am honest, I am still angry at myself for being deceived and with the BKs for deceiving me. I am the most angry for realising most of what motivated me when I was on the inside was the desire for approval and I thought I was stronger than that. I hate feeling this way but the only way to get past it is to accept it. Ugh. Crying or Very sad

Don't you think, too, that there are parallels in what xBKs and pBKs say? Basically, that some day BKs will recognise how wrong they were and regret it?! I doubt this will go down well with any pBKs, but it's just a viewpoint.


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:21 am    Post subject:

Hey Babbit,

What can i say..
Can only talk more from my personal experience thinking that might be similar to other XBKs but I'm not sure.

Each person goes through things in a very particular way. For me the idea is do what you feel in the deepness of your heart and spirit. It may look like Im (we) are attacking the BKs. At least for me I say this things cause I want to express them in some way and this website provided the means to do so. Yes, maybe one day I may just silent myself, but for now I really want to shout out loud, might be a therapy or just a way for my inner growth, this is what I feel to do for now, don't know of tomorrow.
To say this things and to find that after all i wasn't the only one thinking those things of BKs it's a great "excitment" cause when we were there, to say that you were thinking in such way was tabu and very constraining, and like you said you would't get the approval of not only the people you thought to admire, but what they convinced us to be God and the only good divine people in the Universe. To do so would mean to be left out of that group and become part of the stepchildren, renegades, the devils and so on. It is very lonely cause if you are meant to be with God alone, what if you leave him, if you don't agree with him.. you will be on your own, and he wont be on your side, cause it was YOU who placed yourself on the wrong side. See how manipulative that is?

But there is a life outside the BK world..
Most of us the ones who got the guts to follow our own hearts and leave that place and matrix, thought ourselves to be silly, and stupid to fall in such a thing, and I think I got to know very inteligent ones of those in this forum, I my self also think to have a good level of intelegence.. For me it had also been the center of my life and I was willing to do the most dangerous things for it. Why? Cause I believed that was the most highest and benevolent and wonderful thing that could ever exist with my full heart and spirit. Until i saw some less than good things going on and being taught. Do I regret my stupidity? Yes! But I laft at it as well. Cause many more are still there some for more than 20 years and they don't believe in it either, but they don't have the courage to leave especially those attachetments to the BKs and the only life they knew for so long.How can they start from zero? Some of them are so old, and gave it all, sacriface it all,( family, social image, friends, romances, dreams) so don't go and tell them they are wrong. That would literally killed them.
And what about those that really see something is not rigth in this story and close their eyes and mind cause otherwise they won't go to heaven, and will betray God??? I met many like that, and my constant questioning angried most of them.
What you did is not something everyone that gets into that place can or have the courage to do, you should praise yourself for that. I do. You know it took you a lot of guts to do it.

And "why" was what got me out of that place. Why- for me- got me out of conformity, blindness and silly sheep ignorance into responsability and more maturity. I think we have the right to know why. If God knows why, why can't we know why? But sometimes it helps and sometimes makes you question even more whys. As paradoxal as may seem from a personal point of experience I feel that the truth walks with you, grows with you, it is not something static or fix, it mutates like the river to whom the water is never the same but it is always water.
So an answer is givin to you (somehow in whatever way) in a determined point in time to one of your questions, can totally change in another point in time, space, dimension, level plane, and state of consciousness, awereness and maturity. truth is not something to be hold or posessed as an object. So the important thing is to not cristilize yourself in anything, but being flexible and stable in what it feels right and more truthful to you in this present moment, until more light comes in. In small worlds -follow your heart- it usully tells you what is good and when it is time to move on to the next level because it stopped being good.

You know i think every human being is wonderful even when I hate them. No one is better than anyone, which is the same to say everyone is special. We all have the abillity to be the greatest saints and devils. The question is more- When are you? We all can save someone and can kill someone, no one is saved from it even. if they think they are. The only time that seems to exist is Now.
Another ilusion I think we tend to have is to think that what we are is fixed, speaking in terms of character. It is not. We have tendencies though, but being something most of the time does not imply that we can never be the opposite on some other time, even for a second.

I hate feeling this way but the only way to get past it is to accept it. Ugh.

When I went through that I tried to accept feeling the way i was feeling more than what happened to me. Who said you had to accept. Maybe we are so stuck in having to accept it that we forget that maybe it should come naturally. For me it came when i thought that this is my life, my story it could have been different, but hell.. why not. Maybe if it was different i would be asking the same with something else. Who knows what more is to come. Relax and enjoy the journey, your journey. So you have that experience in your hands, why are you going to deny it? Play with it! Use it;what you learn and you are never going to do again? So you learn that you don't need no one's aproval to trust yourself, to trust your instinct, to be who you are.
Why did it happen to you? If it wasn't you it would be someone else, and if it wasn't the BKs it could be some other lunatics that know god to problably convince you. I have to admit that if I had the enough wisdom and expertise of life 7 years ago I would never gone into the BK stuff, but i didn't, now I do. And i know some people that didn't bought that stuff..

We all wish the BKs to realize they are wrong and regret it, cause.. then that would be a relief cause it means we really were smart in leaving, that we are right, and did the right thing,right?
So what if they are, let them be. For me i just know that no God for as real as He might be would number people, have some favorites and despise all the rest, to buy your altruism with heaven and fortune, to bribe you to do what he says, to cause you fear for questioning Him and his creation and feeling things that are so natural and condemn you for that. I much rather burn in hell than to follow or believe in such a God!I much rather be true to my self than to a God outside of me. If this is God and he created me, well he just will have to bear with me, my rebelness and defamation until he makes me shut up, otherwise I wont.

And honesty it is also the best to really find your compass, sincerity from yourself to yourself,honesty is to be authentic with your self even if that means that you have a low self esteem or don't know how to be yourself. Hey I don't know how to be myself and that is great!!! That is a starting point. Cause you accept whatever you are, naturally. Than love can naturally come in, if it is to come in.

Each of us also have an inner voice and wisdom, real or not, but we have it. We know what is right and wrong most of the time and sometimes we learn. It usually tells us where to go or do next to find the answers and how to get them without getting caught in another guru thing cause now we got the diploma, right? So use your tools now, and find what is the real most important thing for you inside you, no one outside can really tell you it is personal. "You are the one you've been waiting for."

So, well this is my inner thoughts and may look garbage to some other people, even to you. But this is coming from the point where I am now, and to tell you, I quite like it. This is what is real to me for now, and it can change tomorrow, I am allowing that to me anyway. If it helps take it if it doesn't it is fine anyway.

Big hugs and stawberry stars for you Babbit!

Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:10 pm    Post subject:

you guys are awesome. Very Happy

Lots I want to say but not the time right now,. besides it will mirror what kikas said above but will post a bit later

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject:

Babbit, I won't have such a long response as kikas (Smile)

I agree with what are all saying, but I wish I wasn't having such a negative reaction to the BKs and the beliefs.

but this sentence seems to capture the essence of your post

I don't think you need to be repulsive against your own "negative" thoughts, attitudes or whatever. We somehow want everything to be nice and well, being constructive all the time and all that other phantastic positive stuff. Halas, the package of life comes in two, not single. You have to take the more destructive side with it. Just realise the good that is intrinsic to it. From time to time, you really need to destroy some stuff .. and then carefully rebuild it. The building always takes longer than the demolishing, so we want to keep those destruction moments limited, both in number and time span. Nonetheless, they are necessary and thus good.

So you need to "digest" a past which has gotten very deep in your life, then you surely will have some stuff to annihilate! Razz

But be carefull, don't trash just anything .. likewise, some people built and built (cf. BKs and pBKs) and in the end up having this huge construction which can collapse in just about any minute.

Just don't mix negative with bad and positive with good. I always like to make analogies with the physical world: a natural environment can only thrive well when there is enough of both sides -- you can't have too much trees, so a forest fire from time to time is good and afterwards, new and young plants can grow thanks to it. Obviously, predators are also needed. etc. etc. There is destruction and construction needed in a well-balanced way on many levels (chemically, biologically, mechanically, etc.)
don't know of that makes sense to you
for me it does

Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:45 am    Post subject:

Hey guys,
It's good to be back after a long break. I was affected by one of those natural disasters attributed to 'God' but this one was largely due to human negligence and errors in human judgement. Let me take this opportunity to extend a heart felt welcome to all the new subscribers. Browsing through the forum was very refreshing and stimulating. Like most of you I feel these fora important to the healing/reform process.

In gyan, we were taught to say 'wah drama' as detached observers. Here, too, we can step back in wonder and witness our evolution in this 'post-gyan-existential void!' We long for stability but must keep an open mind for change since the human condition of living on earth seems to be governed by spiritual evolution. I want to share a poem that comes to mind. It does not fit my sentiments exactly since what I feel more is disappointment than bitterness. Nevertheless, it reflects a similarity of our common experience on leaving gyan. It is one of my few favourites and is taken from Herman Hesse's signal novel The Glass Bead Game or Magister Ludi . I'm writing it from memory so if you're acquainted with it then please excuse the minor errors:

On Reading an Old Philosopher

Those nobel thoughts beguiled me yesterday
I savoured them like choicest vintage wines
But now they sour, meanings seep away
Much like a page of music from whose vines
The clefts and sharps are carelessly erased
Take from a house its centre of gravity
It sways and falls, all sense debased
Cacophony, where once there was harmony.

So, too, a face, old and wise,
once loved and respected
can wrinkle and craze
as ripe for death the mind deserts the eye
leaving an empty, pitiful, shrivelled maze.

So, too, can ecstacy stir every sense
And barely felt can quickly turn to gall
As if there dwells within us cognizance
That everything must wither, die, and fall.

Yet, still, above this veil of endless dying
Man's spirit, struggling incorruptibly,
Shall raise its beacon death defying
And win by longing, immortality.

Your point about sincerity and honesty is well taken Kikas. It is like sunlight for spiritual growth. And I, too, share the experience that there is a guide within us. I also share the belief that that inner guide is in some hidden/unknown way linked to the 'Infinite Being'. The challenge is to remain attuned to its voice or 'touchings' as the BKs would say.

Babbit, I can empathize with your ambivalence. Here's a beautiful prayer I came across recently:

Dear God and Father of us all,
forgive our faith in cruel lies;
forgive the blindness that denies;
forgive Thy creature when he takes,
for the all-perfect Love Thou art
some grim creation of his heart.

[quoted from John Greenfield Whittier:American poet 1807-1892]

We are pilgrims seeking progress.

Thanks for sharing.

"Those were the days my friend ..."
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