Going to Madhuban?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
  • Message
  • Author
User avatar

sparkal

BK supporter

  • Posts: 438
  • Joined: 04 May 2006
  • Location: Shivalaya

Going to Madhuban?

Post29 Jun 2006

Going to Madhuban can be a wonderful experience and is well worth going if you want to get a bigger picture of what the BKs are about.

India itself is an amazing place with a wonderful and diverse culture. As with going anywhere, we can have a wonderful time, or a terrible time for whatever reasons. There is no certainty of anything wherever we go, or if we stay at home forever.

SEX ABUSE - May this never happen.

If you are BK and going to India and taking children with you, you should go with the attitude that it is no different from anywhere else. That includes BK environments.

While sex abuse of this kind can take place in all walks of life, usually by non celibate souls, non BK souls, that is not to say that BK souls are perfect and that it is not possible for such a thing to happen under a BK roof. May this never happen. Anyway, you have been warned. The BKs cannot watch over everyone all the time. And God Father Shiva is unlikely to intervene in such a situation. Don't be blinded by your honeymoon with sweet Baba.

The BKs may not have a lesson on sexual energy, but don' t go thinking that it is not there in us all. An old guy in the post office round the corner, originally from Sindh. I was photocopying. He seemed fairly convinced about things that went on in the early days. Things which may be documented to some degree in Adi Devi ( BK book ) for instance.

I will say no more as he did not know details and I did not speak with him long enough to find out. It has no bearing on the present, so it did not bother me either way. Proof that gossip not only travels like wildfire but also reaches far and wide. Interesting what you can find out about the BKs on your doorstep. There is a lesson in this for all of us. I am in the UK. For more on this subject, go to http://brahmakumaris.info/forum/.php?t=140

MONEY - Personally, I have heard from the horses mouth from at least two souls who claim to have been overcharged by a Brother in India for taxis. THIS IS THEFT in my personal book.

Whether the money is going to the donation box, used for Admin or into his own pocket, we don't know. If I was doing this in the country in which I live, I would know that I was doing something which is not accurate action but we are not talking about UK culture, though, hold on, we are talking about " Brahmin culture ".( good topic)

It was not the amount which effected these souls, they did not mind the financial loss. No, it was as if something had been stolen from them in another way. Their faith. Their moral values had been questioned. They were slightly confused and bewildered even, that this could happen in the BKs. It was not part of the Madhuban experience. It is not what they expected from God' s spiritual family. You just don't do that. Do you?

In both cases, they had left a door open for reason to come in, that there may have been a justifiable reason for it. I am using this small thing to point out that, you are dealing with another culture, so you go to India with your eyes open; and your bags chained to your legs while waiting at train stations and on trains etc. The country in which I live is the most violent in the developed world, so, lets get things into perspective. I would love to be in India right now on holiday.

Stealing from people on Shiva' s behalf is dodgy behaviour in my personal opinion. There is no royalty ( pure personality ) in this. Nor is there any self respect in this. The other side of the coin is, you would pay at least the little amount in question here while being obligatory ripped off by the cabbie anyway, so you may not be losing in the end and even gaining. All these little amounts will add up to a big amount. There may be a good reason for it in the end but souls are coming from India with moral questions about BK integrity which is not why they went.

I invite comment on this independent forum from official BKs on this matter, and any other matter. You ARE listening, aren't you ?

BKs IN India - Yesterday I bumped into an old friend who buys clothes in Nepal / India and sells them here. He has done this for over 20 years. He has had a honeymoon at the BKs' many moons ago.

He told me that, in India, the BKs are not that well liked in general, due to the " Caste System ", which is the Indian version of " Class System " with four categories / bands. As with the Class System in general, you are stuck in the band which you are born in ( debatable, but I have the pen here).

This may assume that the BKs find souls. It is the Father who finds US. So, the poor people of India are either being excluded, or feel it is not for them. God has come. " I come for the poor " . OK, it MAY well refer to the spiritually poor. Are India's huge underbelly not spiritually poor ? Is the caste system in operation in the BKs?

This soul also said that, the BKs are not liked in Abu. Is this a Caste thing again or simply because the BKs have taken over the place? From my own observations, the BKs are generous to the locals, to what degree, I don' t know. But hey, he is an ex-BK, perhaps we should expect no more than the soul feeling that the BKs are a little backward. It simply means that he has moved forward.

If you are not of Indian origin, you will face these things on the BK path, and when going to India. You are dealing with another culture. We should respect other cultures, but we don' t have to adopt their ways either, within reason.

Q - IS THE Indian CASTE SYSTEM GOD FATHER-SHIVA'S SYSTEM OR IS IT OF THIS WORLD AND THEREFORE SHOULD NOT BE PART OF " BK CULTURE " ?

It gets more complex when looking at India as it is closer to home and integrated into the world of Indian BKs'. It is part of their lives and always has been in their current life. Nor can we go to India and expect them to follow that culture of our homeland. Respect. And lots and lots of patience.

Please, don' t let this put you off going to Madhuban, enjoy.
User avatar

mitra

BK

  • Posts: 145
  • Joined: 28 Aug 2006
  • Location: INDIA

Re: Going to Madhuban?

Post29 Aug 2006

sparkal wrote:SEX ABUSE - May this never happen.

Nobody is perfect yet. Everybody is studying. So one has to be careful. One can expect anything from any direction.

IBHS, mitra
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1877
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Going to Madhuban?

Post29 Aug 2006

Mitra wrote:SEX ABUSE - May this never happen. Nobody is perfect yet. Everybody is studying. So one has to be careful. One can expect anything from any direction.

Is this a joke!!!!!!!!!

By the way, the taxi scam is well known (in my opinion) especially at the Delhi centre. One technique is they get all the people using the taxi to pay the full fare, pocketing the difference.
User avatar

admin

site admin

  • Posts: 500
  • Joined: 01 Jan 1970

Re: Going to Madhuban?

Post29 Aug 2006

Mitra wrote:SEX ABUSE - May this never happen ... One can expect anything from any direction.

Ethically, it would not be correct for a Forum Administrator to make a post on any forum.

But given the seriousness of the subject, it is correct to state that before such reports are published the matters are fully researched. As every reader has a right to expect. Although it is clear the contributor is not questioning the facts nor defending those concerned, it is possible to confirm not just the initial serial child sex abuses but also the cover up by the Institution reported elsewhere on this site.

Firstly, although the perpetrator was known, over a period of years the leadership apparently did nothing to remove him from access to children effecting the children's and families' experience of the retreat centres.

Secondly, the offenses committed were far more serious than one at first imagined or could have believed would happen under the protection of the female leadership of the Brahma Kumaris.

Thirdly, the leadership of BKWSU - despite having initially wholly acknowledged the serial incidents - have since issued contradictory public statements referring to these incidents are mere "allegations". In essence, creating doubts in third party's that place the Institution in a better light at the expense of the intergrity of the child victims.

Given the nature of the criminal offense, one is left asking why were and are the matters not reported to the Police and how many unrecorded incidents remain?

Any other questions along this specific field of enquiry should be probably be best addressed toBK Jayanti Kirpalani in London.
User avatar

mitra

BK

  • Posts: 145
  • Joined: 28 Aug 2006
  • Location: INDIA

Re: Going to Madhuban?

Post30 Aug 2006

Mr Green wrote:Is this a joke!!!!!!!!!

By the way the taxi scam is well known (in my opinion) especially at the Delhi place. One technique is they get all the people using the taxi to pay the full fare, pocketing the difference.

Well, it is not a JOKE. My intention is to be CAREFUL all the time [if you are an adult] and take care of your child i.e. you have to be responsible for your child's safety.

Prevention is better than CURE! :idea:
IBHS
MITRA

bansy

  • Posts: 1593
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2006

Post30 Aug 2006

Mitra wrote:My intention is to be CAREFUL all the time[if you are an adult] and take care of your child ie you have to be responsible for your child's safety.

Prevention is better than CURE!

I only have a fleeting idea of the child abuse and the situation and enviroment that has been reported elsewhere in this forum.

I am sure most parents agree themselves that they are always responsible for their children, and I think BK parents are probably even more so caring using the Gyan practically in their lives. But when you extend your own lokik-alokik family to include members of your lost-but-found spiritual family, a certain degree of trust is assumed with these Brothers and Sisters, especially more so with God himself presiding over matters. If you go to Madhubhan, you don't expect your luggage to be taken by any BK, though there are non-BKs hired do the mundane daily tasks. So if you cannot trust your children with the Godly BKs, then who can you trust ?

If your Brother or Sister got hurt, you would rather help him out and find out why, rather than just blaming it on his or her own karma. Where's the love in that ? Even if it is a child.
User avatar

sparkal

BK supporter

  • Posts: 438
  • Joined: 04 May 2006
  • Location: Shivalaya

Post30 Aug 2006

Is this the bubble syndrome emerging again? Not listening to those on the outside of the bubble for a better view of what it is actually like out there in the world.
    •If those who are on the outside are lesser beings, I am surprised that they don't enlist the view of lesser beings, to see lesser beings.
    •If there are wolves in the sheep pen, that doesn't sound like a good set up.
The laity issue can only gather momentum and speed. They hang out with souls at work 8 hours a day some of them, yet they cannot spend any quality time with their full spiritual family. Souls need to trust themselves, and others. We need to overcome this sort of thing.

SEX IS BORING and immature. :shock: I mean, wow! A hole in someones body! Or whatever ... how exciting can it get before it becomes like a bar of chocolate, one is left never satisfied and drained a few seconds later. How much rehearsing do souls need anyway before actually going for the purpose it was intended, procreation? I realise that it is a sensitive subject but it may also need to be discussed. :|

I have no answers, only questions.
User avatar

heshe

reforming BK

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: 22 Jun 2007

Post03 Jul 2007

I am aware of similar incidents of child abuse also.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10446
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Post03 Jul 2007

heshe wrote:I am aware of similar incidents of child abuse also.

Is this separate to these incidents which took place at the Delhi center and Madhuban?

Were they drawn to the attention of the Seniors and dealt with?
User avatar

heshe

reforming BK

  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: 22 Jun 2007

Post03 Jul 2007

These incidents took place in Madhubhan though not serious in the sense that the girls managed to get away from the person showing interest in them. And who did make a pass at them. They were about 7-8 years old at the time and i believe that it was reported. This was early eighties. If the girls hadn't managed to get away, i hate to think what could have occured. Child protection is a must.
User avatar

abrahma kumar

friends or family of a BK

  • Posts: 1133
  • Joined: 23 Jun 2006

Save The Children

Post03 Jul 2007

heshe wrote:These incidents took place in Madhubhan though not serious in the sense that the girls managed to get away from the person showing interest in them. And who did make a pass at them. They were about 7-8 years old at the time and I believe that it was reported. This was early eighties. If the girls hadn't managed to get away, I hate to think what could have occured. Child protection is a must.

...Thank you heshe. Was looking for the lyric to a song of similar name performed by Bobby Womack.

However this one, similarly entitled Save the Children but performed by the late Marvin Gaye, was the more accessible of the two. I too care that the matter of child protection is regarded as a must. Thank you.
User avatar

trinity

friends or family of a BK

  • Posts: 31
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2007

Madhuban

Post19 Nov 2007

When can I go to the mountain?

"I have been bl***g, m********g, and look at p***o but never touched a woman ( dream of it though). Did some coke ..."

Have close contact with a woman, a former student ... I am Raja Yoga teacher. B**w before class.

Am I still welcome???
User avatar

bro neo

ex-BK

  • Posts: 367
  • Joined: 14 Apr 2007
  • Location: Asia

Post19 Nov 2007

We can make our own evil little forest of honey, trin :wink:.
User avatar

alladin

no label

  • Posts: 917
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2007

haunted

Post19 Nov 2007

No worries!! These days, anything goes. No need to "prepare" for Madhuban. Old style BKs do not even want to talk about the way things are going on now. It is too embarassing, disappointing, looking at the expansion, the commercialization, the double standards.

Remember that from a tourist point of view, Mount Abu is really not that great. So, I suggest to skip it. The latest news is that people feel Dadi Kumarka's spirit every where, . Yes! Like everywhere are all the pictures of her. So, more than an ashram, it has become a pilgrimage place - for indians and those who like Bhakti - and a place for "service meetings" of the big heads.

Sounds fantastic, doesn't it?

bkdimok

reforming BK

  • Posts: 292
  • Joined: 27 Aug 2006
  • Location: Russia, ICQ 261034552

Re: Madhuban

Post19 Nov 2007

Trinity wrote:Have close contact with a woman, a former student ... I am Raja Yoga teacher. B**w before class ... Am I still welcome???

Yes, you are. Kaliyuga is your birthplace. So welcome to Kaliyuga. Your play last not more than 1250 years.

Shiv through Shankar
Next

Return to Commonroom