True unlimited service : Do you want Murlis?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Post20 Nov 2007

Sister Bansy wrote:However, back up somewhere in this thread I mention the possibility of Murlis becoming available, once the forum legal situation is clear.

Well, the decision is. The BKWSO lost and this website remains independent. So that is Condition 'A' met and, for many, it fulfills the prediction/advice given by BapDada to "the IT team" a year ago ... "through cooperation there will be victory" (approx). Either,

    a) which IT team was BapDada talking to? Or,
    b) do the opposition have more skullduggery up their sleeves to try on yet?
OK. For me, the greater good of the Murlis will come about when the entire collection is available for instantly searching AND the different revisions can be checked against each other.

I appreciate the personal risk the good BKs may be taking but at some point or another, the chickens of the BKWSU (the present BKs excepted) are going to have to realise that the sky is not going to fall on its head if the Murlis are made public.

I am sorry if this is not what is being offered ... or if I spoil offer of our daily gruel but ... but I think they just have to trust us and let us get on with it. Take a look too at all the BKs that are asking for Murlis or expressing their gratitude on other sections of this site.

Sure, anything is better than nothing but, for me personally, to be dripfed is not enough. Again, I apologize in advance, but some of think and learn faster and it is a frustration being held back.

I also would be concerned that they are not going to give thing long enough to work out. Something like this will bring in new members ... but like any classroom, including BK centers, how many folks just sit at the back and are afraid to engage in discussion against how many folks open their mouths. I'd put the balance at around 100:1.

I am also a little bit unhappy at the inference that some BKs are putting around (not these souls but particularly members of the BKWSU IT PR) that anyone here in anyway negatively modifies Murlis deliberately ... that really is not fair and I am offended on behalf of the Hindi speakers who go out of their way to translate Murlis for us (often drawing attention to inaccuracies or ambiguities not made clear to English speakers) ... and clearly label who and where they were translated. Honestly, we could not be MORE assiduous here if we were paid to be.

Lastly, I'd like to point out the in interjection of the Murlis at this point with have a cumulative effect over time that may not be obviously in an "Thou Must Churn Two Points Today" manner. On one hand, the Murlis are HIGHLY repetitive ... so it would be hard to know where one stopped and the next started; on the other, sometimes it takes days or weeks for certain points to filter through.

It would also be good if BKs are willing to come forward and initiate discussions.
Charles Dickens wrote:Oliver Twist and his companions suffered the tortures of slow starvation for three months; at last they got so voracious and wild with hunger, that one boy: who was tall for his age, and hadn't been used to that sort of thing, (for his Father had kept a small cook's shop): hinted darkly to his companions, that unless he had another basin of gruel per diem, he was afraid he might some night happen to eat the boy who slept next him, who happened to be a weakly youth of tender age. He had a wild, hungry, eye; and they implicitly believed him. A council was held; lots were cast who should walk up to the master after supper that evening, and ask for more; ... and it fell to Oliver Twist.

The evening arrived; the boys took their places. The master, in his cook's uniform, stationed himself at the copper; his pauper assistants ranged themselves behind him; the gruel was served out; and a long grace was said over the short commons. The gruel disappeared; the boys whispered each other, and winked at Oliver; while his next neighbours nudged him. Child as he was, he was desperate with hunger, and reckless with misery. He rose from the table; and advancing to the master, basin and spoon in hand, said: somewhat alarmed at his own temerity:

"Please, sir, I want some more."

The master was a fat, healthy man; but he turned very pale. He gazed in stupefied astonishment on the small rebel for some seconds; and then clung for support to the copper. The assistants were paralysed with wonder; the boys with fear.

"What!" said the master at length, in a faint voice.

"Please, sir," replied Oliver, "I want some more."

The master aimed a blow at Oliver's head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arms; and shrieked aloud for the beadle. The board were sitting in solemn conclave, when Mr. Bumble rushed into the room in great excitement, and addressing the gentleman in the high chair, said,

"Mr. Limbkins, I beg your pardon, sir! Oliver Twist has asked for more!"

There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance. "For more!" said Mr. Limbkins. "Compose yourself, Bumble, and answer me distinctly. Do I understand that he asked for more, after he had eaten the supper allotted by the dietary?". "He did, sir," replied Bumble. "That boy will be hung," said the gentleman in the white ...

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abrahma kumar

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Certainly the sky won't fall down on anyone

Post20 Nov 2007

As an aside, I seem to recall that it was Percy the chick who thought that it was the sky falling down on his head when in fact it was just an acorn that had fallen from an oak tree under which he was passing. It was then his mother who reassured him that his worst fears were unfounded.

Anyway in agreement with some of the sentiments expressed by ex-l, my own feeling is that nothing less than complete freedom of the Murli is the only progressive way forward. Not only complete freedom of the material itself but also NO expectations about how it is utilised as a resource for spiritual development.

If abek were to have concerns that "a particular way of benefitting from the availability of the Murli may not result", then he would have to see that as a limitation in his consciousness (a purely personal assessment that applies to abek's reflections upon himself ONLY).

And that there is some possibility that it may be put about that "anyone here ... negatively modifies Murlis deliberately" is truly appalling and entirely without foundation. However, the only way to prove it is to free the Murli and let us see what happens. If I were to find that any on-line Murli had been "tampered with" or "mistranslated" deliberately then I would raise my own voice in query and ultimately opposition if there no verifiable explanation were offered. Seems fair to me ...

Thanks to all.
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tete

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BK Cyber Temple/Ashram for Daily Murli...

Post20 Nov 2007

Bansy,

These are very well put and in line with the idea of a BK Cyber Temple/Ashram.
    (1) Would you like to have the latest daily Murli appearing on the forum ? YES
    (2) Would you be willing to discuss a point or a number of points on that Murli on a daily basis (i.e. make at least one daily post) ? NO
    (3) Would you be willing to discuss a point or a number of points on that Murli at least once on a weekly basis ? YES
I agree with ex-l in that many Indian members take time to do the translations and they place them in their section with out interruption (respect). A to the accuracy of the translation, that has not been an issue for me, I see it more on how one person can read the exact text and given their beliefs sees it through those very belief based glasses. The PBKs have been most kind and have adapted well to this forum, even with our most challenging folks, and have been respectful.

Then there are other sections where Murlis are discussed at length by all. I hope those offering the Murlis know how much we appreciate their work and what it means to the folks they serve. They have always been an example to others and have been of service when ever anyone has a Murli question. I have been particularly impressed with their grace and their efforts.

Interesting thing about the PBKs is that once they were allowed their freedom here (expressing themselves without bounds), they really haven't made any great efforts to convert any of us, least of all me.

Now, that A has been met, I think the next step would be to create an area for Basy's suggestions (and the little angel helpers).
    (1) Would you like to have the latest daily Murli appearing on the forum ?
    I would also suggest that this thread merely post them, like Arjun's in the PBK section. The faithful could access them, read them and print them at their leisure.

    (2) Would you be willing to discuss a point or a number of points on that Murli on a daily basis (i.e. make at least one daily post) ?
    This could have a separate thread where discussions could take place, a level of decorum followed (remember you are now in the Cyber Temple/Ashram), churn the Murli to ones heart's content and great philosophical discourse could take place.

    (3) Would you be willing to discuss a point or a number of points on that Murli at least once on a weekly basis ?
    For this to happen we would need to have a moderator, at least two people competent and willing to select a point or points for discussion with its separate thread. This would also be of "service" to those BKs living in far off remote places or like some here that clearly had a lot more churning than their centres knew about or could handle.
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(?) An area where PBKs and BKs could chose to enter to discuss the Murli and positions, points without clubbing each other like ex-l so eloquently puts it. But maybe it could be started just with Bansy's points and then grow with time and as others begin to get accustomed to it.

So, there would need to be set guidelines when entering the Cyber Temple/Ashram forum, just as there are when entering the Youth Camp Forum. We need to reach out and mend fences, build relationships with all that come here and take heart in knowing that this has only been possible through open, honest communication. Communication is the key to building all relationships and moving forward.

Yes, this last chapter was very hard, but people laugh, critique, joke, have extensive philosophical discussions, discuss the Murlis, discuss life issues and play with one another in the game of life here. This site reflects some of the best that have come through some sort of contact with the BKs, some out grew it, some got frustrated with being limited in the discussions and others left to chart their own path. Each individual has a journey, how or what path they chose to take it is up to them. I think there is room enough for a Cyber Temple/Ashram to serve those that need, want and desire to have open discussion based on their beliefs within the BKs.

AbieK, as to tinkering with the Murlis, I think we have entered a new era, where information is getting out regardless and such tinkering would only under mind those with the scissors or those doing redactions. See, the other folks are still going to continue their works and it will look mighty odd if complete sections are chopped or clipped off.

We need to be open and support them (bansy and the little angels), as some times it takes baby steps to make the journey come full circle. Let us be honest in admitting that this is the place for it to happen. What better venue than to have this take place were open access and discussion is held so dear. Now let us see what others think.

Thank you Bansy.
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ex-l

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Re: BK Cyber Temple/Ashram for Daily Murli...

Post21 Nov 2007

tete wrote:many Indian members take time to do the translations and they place them in their section without interruption (respect). As to the accuracy of the translation to tinkering with the Murlis, I think we have entered a new era, where information is getting out regardless and such tinkering would only under mind those with the scissors or those doing redactions. See, the other folks are still going to continue their works and it will look mighty odd if complete sections are chopped or clipped off.

To me it is funny that those we know ARE tampering with the Murlis, and cutting pieces out of them, are the same ones to accuse we who are asking for the original, full and uncut versions!

I think its just a preemptive attempt of poisoning the waters. I am starting to think that as they are mostly speaking to their followers when they show all those pictures of them with VIPs and go on about the UN etc ... so when they make their criticisms of us, it is mostly to try and keep a hold on their followers to. They know it is not valid, they know we know that it is not valid; but if it serves to seed doubt in their followers' minds, then it is worthwhile for them.

I am sorry. My vision has been tainted by this last episode but this offer of cooperation will go a long way to restore my opinion of the ordinary followers.
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andrey

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Post22 Nov 2007

Dear br ex-l,

Servitude – it is to think of BKs all the time and your behaviors to be dependent on them it means like you serve them.

If our feelings are guided just by the revolutionary instinct we did this already. Revolutions definitely happen but they last very short time. Wars also last comparatively very short time in comparison to the rest of the time. Most of the time we have calm days. During these times we can study peacefully. When it is a revolution or a war we will not have taste, or find time to study.

Did ShivBaba take statistics before coming and speaking how will we take it. Murli is our right does not mean someone is there in between to decide. That’s why i meant we should not ask anyone, because this one feels responsible. Now what if we don’t study or interpret wrongly, but is it someone’s responsibility. Now only little suppression is there. We have only little conditions. The one who becomes a provider, is he not sure whether to give Murli is good or bad. Is it not a duty. Is the decision not taken already. Is it not clear what the decision should be so that statistics are taken.

It is like when a woman gets engaged, she needs to know everything, but also such engagements take place that she does not know anything. Where is the matter of bravery if such an act is so very natural, but because in the opposite we have become habituated what is normal becomes a heroic act.

Can there be any harm due to such act and even if there can seem many things to go against it is something that one decides for himself? If it is right action it will give pleasure internally even if many oppose. Wherever there is truth the hearth dances. I mean if they are to give Murli, why not give. Why torture us. If we will read or not, the simple act of giving why is it done. If it is done because it is right then there is no care for result, result will turn to be right.

Because once we may get the Murlis we can always have them stopped, if we don’t comply. So these human standards always will give some uncomfortability to both parties, because we are not law-makers also.

There is also this collective instinct. Why? Is it not that if a single one likes the Murli is this not enough a reason. Why should he discuss every day or every week? If the Murli is always there for him when he needs, if he reads one word per year will this not bring good be it a small one. Why should someone decide for us the mode of our study. What if I like to have 10 Murlis a day. Will they provide this? Someone may also need this. Why always we take the lowest example?

It is said that there is only one shop. So should this be opened day and night if they know it is the only place will it not be like this if they knew that seekers will not find anywhere else, or will the shop close – "OK none comes, maybe they won’t come." No. Shop has to be opened. Murlis has to be available to anyone who needs. So we may avoid collectivism and anyone who wishes the Murli may address someone to receive it. For me, the wish is enough.
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ex-l

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Post23 Nov 2007

andrey wrote:No. Shop has to be opened. Murlis has to be available to anyone who needs.

At the moment, it strikes me that someone has built a castle wall around the shop and called it their own storehouse. So the villagers cannot access it without paying their taxes.

I don't believe these people have the right to tax the villagers and at least we share the opinion that they should be freely available. At least we have some unity between us. I agree that those that have the hunger to read 10 Murlis a day should have it fed.

Thank you.
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arjun

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Post21 Dec 2007

Dear Admin,

Hello. Until Sister Bansy manages to convince the BK Sisters to start supplying us revised Murlis for study and discussion, I have an idea.

I had started the thread on "extracts from revised Sakar Murlis published by BKs" in the BK section of this forum, with the hope that these point would be used for daily discussions, but very few members are using the same. It could partly be because it may not be easy for Members to take a particular extract and locate the relevant thread in some other section to initiate discussion on the extracts.

Therefore, I was thinking if it could be possible to create a mirror copy of the same thread in the Commonroom Section so that Members could discuss the extracts in the same thread whenever they want without the necessity to search for relevant topics elsewhere.

The relevant thread in the BK section could remain wherever it is, where I would continue to post the extracts. If its mirror thread is created in the Commonroom Section, I will paste a copy of the extracts in this thread also daily for enabling discussions on the same. If possible the new thread could be named 'extracts from latest BK Murlis for discussion'.

Thanks,
OGS,
Arjun
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john

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Post22 Dec 2007

arjun wrote:If possible the new thread could be named 'extracts from latest BK Murlis for discussion'.

That's a nice idea Arjun, but it means someone is choosing which part of Murli to discuss, rather than from a whole Murli which everyone can see. Also it is easier to see the meaning of the Murli section in context with the whole Murli.

I think somebody just choosing a section to discuss without others knowing what the the rest of the Murli says can lead to subtle manipulation or them putting their own spin on it related to which party they belong to.
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arjun

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Post22 Dec 2007

John wrote:I think somebody just choosing a section to discuss without others knowing what the the rest of the Murli says can lead to subtle manipulation or them putting their own spin on it related to which party they belong to.

Yes, that can be possible. But something is better than nothing, at least until we start getting the full daily Murlis from BKs.

Whether the complete Murli is posted or the extracts of it, the churning will definitely be according to every individual's capacity, background or inclinations. It is like the famous school-time story of many blind men describing their reactions in different ways after touching an elephant.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

bansy

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Post22 Dec 2007

Until Sister Bansy manages to convince the BK Sisters to start supplying us revised Murlis for study and discussion

From my last contact, the view was, from the other related thread requesting responses, given the total number of forum members there are very few actual responses, and from within that even fewer BKs. So this could come to a standstill.
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ex-l

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Post22 Dec 2007

bansy wrote:From my last contact, the view was, from the other related thread requesting responses, given the total number of forum members there are very few actual responses, and from within that even fewer BKs. So this could come to a standstill.

The problem was;
    too little faith ...
    too many "deals" and strings attached ...
    (that's Copper Aged)
    not enough patience ...
    (to give it time to grow)

    ... and a small lack of appreciate of the current limitations of the technology.
Do they not realise how things would change IF word got around that the Murlis were available? There is an old maxim in politics, one letter equal 10,000 votes. I hope that they have no written us off forever.

Have the good Sisters never sat on a guddhi and asked a class of a 100 or more BKs to comment on that morning's Murli? How many BKs jump up to answer? Even to the Dadis. Frankly, its like pulling teeth out of a horse ... What do you get? The same 3 or 4 bright students that answer all the questions and the 1 or 2 dumb ones that ask the same question or get it wrong every time. That is life.

And what of the silent majority??? Those BKs that write in asking for daily Murlis in the other thread?
    Oh, Ye of little faith ... enjoy the comforts of your palaces, we will stick it out in the forest for a little longer.
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john

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Post22 Dec 2007

Until Sister Bansy manages to convince the BK Sisters to start supplying us revised Murlis for study and discussion
bansy wrote:From my last contact, the view was, from the other related thread requesting responses, given the total number of forum members there are very few actual responses, and from within that even fewer BKs. So this could come to a standstill.

If one soul is served then it will be worthwhile, the Murlis are already in electronic format, where is the problem?

The reality is that many many souls will be served, hopefully the politics of the situation will not hinder the service.
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admin

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Murlis in download section

Post07 Jan 2008

Usual thanks to incognito donors with no strings attached.
    A new selection of Murlis including 2006 and 2007 Avyakt Vanis in the new look Download section;here.
Alternative URL is, http://brahmakumaris.info/indexw.html

The page should also allow individuals to upload their copies.

If you are scanning Murlis from papers, please take notice of this request;
    a) scan at 150 dpi or higher and grayscale only. 200 dpi is good as this should allow us to OCR scan them for text. No need for higher resolution.
    b) if you know how, or have the software, please OCR scan (Optical Character Recognition) any paper Murlis and convert them into text only version for inputing into either the Encyclopedia or Avyakt Murli section. This allows them to be searched easily.
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arjun

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Post08 Jan 2008

Omshanti.

Thanks to the incognito donor for liberating the Murlis from bondages. And thanks to the Admin. or the BKInfo servers for uploading the same for the benefit of Brahmin souls throughout the world.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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