Who are you writing for?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post19 Mar 2009

rayoflight wrote:She said it wasn't her but me. I thought how could that be?

Of course, it was not you. That is just a typical piece of BK politesse.

A more accurate answer, despite it being very common within the BKWSU ... is no one really knows and, as you pointed out, if you ask you basically get brickedwalled.

I had first time, non-Indian and non-cultured students having vision of Hanuman and others virgin mary type of figures. It was not me. But it was not them either.

I go for the "overshadowing" theory again. When other or another soul/spirits, whatever enters into your aura and uses you/the situation to do whatever it is up to.
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rayoflight

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post19 Mar 2009

Wow, thanks for that. I definitely feel like this is a very good possibility. Please do share with me as much as possible if you don't mind as I feel like an addict at times, that keeps going back to her drug, and yet, I have never been addicted to anything but love in my life. There you go.
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tom

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post19 Mar 2009

dear rayoflight,

rarely at some Murli classes when i was sitting on the guddi and was giving drishti or rarely when i was sitting in the classroom and taking drishti from any BK sitting on the guddi, but really rarely, on a sudden i saw the classroom and the BKs with all livelihood and furniture including the big red ShivBaba's poster on the wall in front of us turned into shining golden low-relief, on a golden flat background . Every being and furnitures and the golden plants were glowing golden-white rays from their auras and being in absolute stillness as if everything including us are frozen as shining golden low-relief.

This experience gave me bliss and filled me with great excitement and feeling of God's love at the moment but i had to move on, or the BK on the guddi had to move on, so at the first movement it turned into real colors and life again, it could not continue longer than the drishti.

I shared this experience in different times with two mature pukka BK friends, who are clever and cool in nature, they both said that they have been also rarely experiencing the same scene with bliss, describing in detail as i know, and could not share with anybody.

Outside of the classroom this experience never happened. And i have never seen auras in life.

Now i am thinking, it can be an experience from a higher source, according to the feeling of bliss i have experienced. Or maybe i don't know yet what bliss is, and experienced only a sort of happiness which came to me from the spooks as a bait so that i would become more obedient.
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rayoflight

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post19 Mar 2009

Hi tom and thank you for sharing this.

I feel SO MUCH BETTER already just having met everybody here and having received so much confirmation and support for all the stuff that was driving me crazy.

I am so happy for you tom that you have moved on even though your experiences were so fantastic in nature. I am starting to make some very important realizations that are vital to my own recovery. For one, I don't feel angry anymore at those very people who pulled me in because they are brainwashed and basically trapped by all this nonsense that the BKs do. On the contrary, I feel compassion for them and hope that they will be okay. Does anyone have any advice on this aspect? A part of me wishes I could do something but I just don't know what ...

More importantly though, I am starting to see my own weaknesses more clearly, the ones that may have been responsible for the dependence I developed which NONE of their courses could have ever healed simply because they were nurturing them! How backwards is that? To be teaching independence whilst subtly nurturing dependence. And what about self-esteem? They teach you how to be strong while at the same time they suck your confidence from right under you! How wily. To be teaching about values and to be doing everything but what you're teaching. The hypocrisy has always been evident but I never knew how deep it really went.

I am also beginning to think that the operation is laced with a "drug-like" vibration that keeps us wanting more, keeps us docile and keeps us in this bubble of so-called "truth." These otherworldly experiences you described tom, are exactly why people keep going back. Because if you've had them, you want more, and if you haven't then you keep trying to have them. Determination is, after all, a virtue, right?

The teachings would have all been fine if after that they just allowed us to be ourselves rather than try to control us and turn us into little sheep in order to sustain their so-called spiritual organization.

Today I feel alive again. Thank you all for being here.
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leela

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post20 Mar 2009

Hello rayoflight,

I have been reading and benefiting from your posts. Thank you for writing. One comment you wrote elsewhere, "the bite that fits the wound" was very graffic to me. I haven't heard that before. It is such an apt description of my own life experiences before, during, and after the BKs.
rayoflight wrote:The teachings would have all been fine if after that they just allowed us to be ourselves

Well, it seems that many of us did not want to be "ourselves" when we came. Speaking for myself, I was on the run from myself and the BKs were a welcome refuge. But it was a growing frustration with this lack of human reality that took me out again.

What you say here,
More importantly though, I am starting to see my own weaknesses more clearly, the ones that may have been responsible for the dependence I developed which NONE of their courses could have ever healed simply because they were nurturing them!

is absolutely the crux for me too. Looking inside, tracking down, and meeting those behaviors honestly leads to such liberation. Paradoxically, it seems to also lead to realisations about things on the outside. This has been my experience in the short time I have been participating in this forum. I had no idea why I was here, but I felt pushed to come. The revelations have been startling and precious.

In some ways I can make less and less sense of who the BKs are and what my experience there was all about. But re-examining it from today's perspective is proving very fruitful for life today. Thank you for contributing to that.
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rayoflight

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post20 Mar 2009

Dear leela,

I am so happy to read your post. Thank you so much for writing. I don't know if I want to laugh or cry today. So much emotion is coming out and it feels great and even "victorious!!" Haha ... I cannot stop reading all the posts and the articles because reading all this stuff makes me feel like I've been reborn again.
leela wrote:In some ways I can make less and less sense of who the BKs are and what my experience there was all about. But re-examining it from today's perspective is proving very fruitful for life today.

I feel the same way, leela. It is as though I am waking up from an opium dream. (I have never taken opium, but like I mentioned in another post, Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz fell asleep in an opium field and when she woke up she discovered the Wizard behind the curtain was just a scared man.) The benefits are there, they've been integrated into my psyche which I am grateful for. Looking back feels like a dream, but who were those people in my dream? I don't even know.
Well, it seems that many of us did not want to be "ourselves" when we came. Speaking for myself, I was on the run from myself and the BKs were a welcome refuge. But it was a growing frustration with this lack of human reality that took me out again.

I agree that it is a refuge for many people. The world can be cruel so I do understand why we would want to find a refuge where everyone is an angel and kind and soft spoken. But writing this just makes me want to weep as now I know that it was all just a sham. Some of us are truly pure and kind by nature and sincerely wanted to help the world. Thank goodness not everyone is power hungry and has delusions of grandeur.

searcher

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post20 Apr 2009

paulkershaw wrote:It's not possible to be a questioning BK" - in terms of the BKWSU codes of living, you're either a BK or you're not, and any 'questioning' one does outside of the teachings puts one on the outskirts of the Yagya. BK life is either something one totally dives into or if there are questions is then never truly a Brahma Kumar/i (Brahmin would probably be the term they would use ...).

Paul, you are right. In reality a BK cannot be questioning. Meaningful questioning in the official BK world is, at best, tolerated, but generally discouraged. So many inconsistencies, confusions and contradictions. The most honest questions and answers I've found have been on this website.

Thanks to all you regular contributors for sharing your experiences and thoughts for others like myself to examine theirs. ERomain's letters are enough in themselves.
Rayoflight wrote:The "fire of Yoga" was such a great concept. The more Yoga I did the more I thought I was becoming clean and pure of all my sins and shame and what not. But all it did was turn me into a zombie and neutralize my personality like erasing me with an eraser.

I started asking myself, "If it's not God then who/what is it?" I have to face the fact that I've exposed myself to psychic manipulation from beyond the human level. The term 'instrument' takes on a sinister connotation.

Fortunately I did not get to the stage where I felt God required me to hand in my mind with my shoes. But I am painfully aware there are other good people around me who have, sincerely believing that they are doing something beneficial.

Disappointed, disillusioned, a little depressed, but grateful.

New rank: 'Exiting BK'
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rayoflight

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post20 Apr 2009

Hi Searcher,

BK's always talk about earning their fortune for the Golden Age, but my greatest fortune has been leaving the Brahma Kumaris. So, yes, you are quite fortunate that you did not hand in your mind with your shoes as you say.
The term 'instrument' takes on a sinister connotation.

This is very well put. I cannot help but think of center heads or VIPs as the devil and Sisters as witches because I also cannot help but feel that there is some black magic going on. Why? Because anyone who worships anyone other than God is worshipping the devil himself and all those who use the devil's energy is simply the oldest tale in the book: a wicked witch.

Nobody should be allowed to manipulate others with psychic energy. That is simply unethical and definitely NOT God's work. But that is what the BKs do to pull people in. I know because I learned how to do it myself and I do not approve of it in the least. Interfering with people's minds is downright wrong. It is a form of mind rape, but how many people actually realize this is what's going on?

jann

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post20 Apr 2009

How, and what did you learn to pull people in???
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leela

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post21 Apr 2009

Hello searcher,

I want to wish you the best for this stage of your journey. It can be a rocky time to wake up to your own truth, but in my experience it is always worth it. I never really questioned my whole BK experience for 10 years after leaving, and it has proven VERY fruitful to do so now. I hope you find the forum as useful as I have.

There's a lot of talk on here about the psychic side to the BKs, and you say
I have to face the fact that I've exposed myself to psychic manipulation from beyond the human level.

If that definition of things resonates with you, then fine. But I just want to add another point of view. I have no psychic sensitivity or awareness whatsoever. I find people's experiences and theories about all that very interesting, but my 14 year experience and current explanation of the BK world has none of that. I lean more to the view that everything we experience is some form of projection from within ourselves. I find that a beneficial angle on this journey of self-discovery.

All the best with your "exiting". May your transition go well. And I wish you a fruitful journey with this forum too. It can be a wild ride once you get on board, full of surprises, but also full of insights.

leela

Terry

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post21 Apr 2009

A general response to some of the last few posts ...

Tom's experience in meditation, golden hues etc, he describes as rare and possibly
experienced only a sort of happiness which came to me from the spooks as a bait so that I would become more obedient.

These were common meditation experiences for me and for many of my generation of BKs. It is also, as I and others have stated elsewhere, something that has been experienced before and after Raja Yoga. It is only a different way of "seeing", and the explanations are moot. The emotional response, of wonderment, soon passes when it becomes less unique. It are not encouraged as an aim by Seniors, and often dismissed as a "sideshow". I have also come across this response by meditation teachers on other paths.

ROL's posts are always honest and forthright. I am a little disappointed to hear the language of "the devil himself" spoken so seriously. Now Satan as well as God, is a male? There is an old Nepalese saying that is worth recording:

"You may have your gods and your demons, but remember, they are YOUR gods and YOUR demons".


I will argue again that the Seniors and practicing BKs (can you remember how it was to be one) are sincere in their beliefs. They are not intentionally malevolent, misguided as they may be in others eyes. We all chose to become BKs, we all chose to leave. The only obstacles to exercising that choice is ourselves and our own mindsets, our own fears, our own "romance" about the ''spiritual" life.

Any group identity creates a dynamic which wants to keep members involved. You can all probably remember incidents in other groupings where someone wants to move on to another venture in life - family, interest groups, theatre companies whatever - and we'd all say "don't go" and put forward reasons why they should stay, we want them to be with us for whatever reason. The religious imperative obviously amplifies and distorts such responses, but that is a matter of degree only. The BKs are no different to other groups in that way.

Funnily enough, ROL's language is the language my mum used when I joined the BKs! It is the devil that pulls souls away from the true church - which is Orthodox. Even the Roman Catholics, let alone the non-Christians, are all Satan's creations. Maybe my mum and ROL are both right?
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alladin

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Post21 Apr 2009

Hi. First of all apologies for not having been around much lately, and having therefore missed the opportunity to say, "hi" and thanks a lot to new excellent contributors!

I am finding myself with no spare time at hand. I feel that posting in this Forum is a serious business and it is not appropriate for me to just drop in, skim through the posts, say a couple of things and disappear again. However, let me pop in here, since I have been thinking about the topic of evil spirits recently and talking about it with some friends. So I am fresh from some "churnings" and discussions and experiences that I mean to share at some stage.

At the moment, I just want to say that I basically agree completely with the things Rayoflight wrote in her last post. Possibly a reason why, statistically, most sisters-in-charge have such negative energy and bossy attitude, is due to the fact that one has to be very ambitious and have ego drive mainly to climb The Ladder, in the BKWSO. Their little world is no different from the lokik world. People, when acting in a conscience that is not elevated, obey to those typical mechanisms known as temptations from matter and corruption that comes from power and position. Too bad!

However, to be fair, there are some exceptions and I did come across some mellow and loving yogi souls who were in charge of centers. And, who knows, if I had been a student there, I would have remained in contact! I noticed how any sister in charge is under pressure from Seniors to conform to rules, they are part of an army or a corporation.

Typically, teachers who are loving, not too strict, friendly and hospitable, get their ears pulled, "it is not Baba's system, blah blah ..." . They have to play the game, bring money and zombies to the Yagya, push independent minded students out, and become sergeants and policemen themselves. So, a pure and honest person will not find the sister in charge role compatible with his/her sanskars eventually!

Likewise, Terry, I would not generalize claiming that ALL Seniors have pure motives in what they are doing. The "numberwise" exists and it is all up to our discrimination power to see that and to remain free from being "impressed" by the roles, clothes, gaddhis, age etc ...

I like to follow my gut feelings in this, as well as observing people's dharna, rather than being enchanted by their words. Come on, it doesn't take decades of meditation to become kind and gentle, whilst being wise! Is it such a big deal to be a nice person and to respect others?

I wouldn't call souls who are cynical and give sorrow or who misuse their powers, elevated nor enlightened. They are not white magicians. Just the opposite, in fact. Not even animals like going close to them and, personally, I'd rather keep from them a safety distance, physical and mental.
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ex-l

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post21 Apr 2009

rayoflight wrote:Nobody should be allowed to manipulate others with psychic energy. That is simply unethical and definitely NOT God's work. But that is what the BKs do to pull people in. I know because I learned how to do it myself and I do not approve of it in the least. Interfering with people's minds is downright wrong.

I have to agree with this statement and would wish to take it further.

Its not only "interfering with people's minds", its interfering and manipulating people's social support networks (family, friends etc) and utlimately, if you believe in such a thing, interfering with and manipulating people's relationship with God.

For individuals with a sense of religosity, or going through a phase of religosity, this would be the most intimate and influential part of their self that they, the BKs, are hoping to plug into psychically (or all that as a 'shorthand' entails) and supercede for their benefit.

In other words, supplanting their god for all others "god" concept.

I guess, keeping within the subject of this topic, I write to encourage others to question whether the god of the BKs is good enough to do so and, if not, what is that "something" or someones that are claim to be god. 77 years on (Lekhraj Kirpalani is recorded to have retired and started his satsangs in 1932) 49 ... 33 ... 23 (or how many ever) years past the dates predicted for Destruction, surely some solid logic or unquestionable examples of this divinity should be evident by now.

I am sorry but I find that sort of "god" lacking and a system that does not address such anomalies even more so.
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rayoflight

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post21 Apr 2009

I love this forum. Really, the insights are always so much more intelligent than anything I ever came across with the BK's.

I have to admit that my comments about the devil as a "he" were written quickly and spontaneously because I am on the road and have less time to ponder what I am going to write. BUT, like terry says, I am always honest and forthright, so using such words as "devil" and "witches" although medieval in context. My gut feeling is that maybe there is some truth to it. I have always been a "free spirit", and not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but the experience I had with the BKs changed my nature and made me think that we are not alone!

I don't know why some people attract mystical and supernatural experiences and others don't, but I always have, even before the BKs came into my life. So I have a sense of what it feels like to be affected by a force beyond my control. However, being in the BKs was not simply being affected, but infected which is much more insidious. The brainwashing is like a mental infection which causes disease to the mind.
jannisder wrote wrote:How, and what did you learn to pull people in???

My strength was in using my thoughts and somehow I was able to put my thoughts, that is my will, into other people's minds. At the beginning, I could feel I was not alone in doing this. It was just too easy. Whatever I wanted, I got. When I speak of the "devil's work", I am sure that some of you have seen movies where words come out of people's mouths that they did not choose to say. The weaker the mind is, the easier it is to do. But there was backlash too because people know when something fishy is going on and, although I did not think I was doing anything wrong, I soon realized that it just wasn't right. Mainly because other Brahmins were doing it to me!

So I knew what was going on. People started calling me a witch and even my family started to fear me. We are powerful beings, but making people do things for us for the sake of recruiting for the BK organization is such a cowardly act that God would have nothing to do with it. True integrity and respect is in allowing people to choose for themselves without the use of entities and psychic/mind manipulation. However, given the chance to "rule the world" by selling our souls to the "devil" is obviously an offer than many people cannot resist.

Terry

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Re: Who are you writing for?

Post21 Apr 2009

Hey Ray - Inverted commas are good! A nuisance, but they make a difference no? ("devil"). I'd still say the experiences you had
rayoflight wrote:I was able to put my thoughts, that is my will, into other people's minds ...

and the rest ... are things that people with strong personalities and skills do all the time. One of the qualities needed is confidence, and when you are zealous, you are confident. You can see how those skills connect to all the executive/sales coaching type service that BKs do these days. Anyway, if that spiritualist language serves you, fine. Being bi-lingual, and with parents for whom English is a 2nd language, I am often aware of what language people think in, how certain concepts fit better in the "other" language, and how the limitations of a language effects concepts (which is one reason languages change). "We live through our language".
alladin wrote: I would not generalize claiming that ALL Seniors have pure motives ... doesn't take decades of meditation to become kind and gentle ... Is it such a big deal to be a nice person and to respect others? I wouldn't call souls who are cynical and give sorrow, who misuse their powers, elevated, nor enlightened ... not white magicians, just the opposite.

Yes, I'd agree with all of that. Except they are not magicians by any stretch (or did you mean "black non-magicians"?). The only reason they can fool anyone is if they want to be fooled, or are ready to be fooled.

Otherwise they would successfully convert almost anyone who came into contact with them. Or only those, like ROL, who "attract supernatural experiences". If you look at the numbers, the Christians are far more successful at "bewitching" people into believing their god. So let's "keep it real". If you enter a shop, you are half-ready to buy what may be on offer. If you are honest with yourself, with reflection I am sure you'd spot your "sucker moment" or what made you a ripe pick, as we have discussed elsewhere. Once you "buy" into the game, you have a motive to invest more into it, like a bad gambling habit, trying to call your own bluff.

By saying "they are sincere, if misguided" is not to disagree with your comments. Rajneesh said the same thing of the BKs, "they believe complete nonsense, but with complete conviction". I doubt center-in-charges consciously work out, "how will I give sorrow" or "let me misuse my power". As Jannisder asks, and l'll ask in a different way of any ex-centre wassis, did you think in those terms? I am sure the self-justification that goes on, the twisting of reality to suit the particular truth they are trying to perpetuate, is sincere - and it's twisted because the person has become twisted (meaning neurotic, split, out of touch with themselves).
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