Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post24 Feb 2012

Bright Spark wrote:Wow, paranoia alert. I am an electrician, it's a business name.

And that qualifies you to judge professional ethics in the therapeutic field and the influence of New Religious Movements?

Best stick to intelligent conversation as what I am seeing in both your and Engima's comments is a sense disdain or condescension, whether it is him calling unsatisfied clients "damaged", or your calling us paranoid twice now.

On one hand, we have one person saying he is still involved with the BKWSU and on the other that he passes clients over to them; on the other, we have no denial of those claims. There's nothing paranoid about that.

I could easily start picking apart his website and comments from a BK point of view but I refuse to as I am holding out in the hope of decent, adult communication. Please don't provoke me. You may be "healed" according to Reach, but you're not coming across as very "enlightened".

I'd like to read how he views the BK mentality and the behaviour of the BKWSU leadership from the point of view of a therapist, and what professional ethics he applies to recommending his clients to them.

starchild

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post24 Feb 2012

Enigma says that he features the retreat centres on his site, because he gets consistently good feedback from those who attend them. I think people who are attending therapy for emotional, mental or psychological challenges have a right to a level of care and protection from those who take it upon themselves to treat them.

Enigma clearly has looked at this forum, (one assumes is aware of it's content ) sees the numerous allegations of abuse and damage resulting from involvement with, and practice of bkism, one would expect a person in his position to address these issues in a real and in depth way, for the sake of his clients.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post24 Feb 2012

What bearing does my chosen profession have on debate ex-l? I am perhaps not "qualified" to judge professional ethics (are you?), but I have an opinion, and direct experience, which I believe should have some validity. I am sure you weren't trying to be condescending but that is how it has come across.

How do you come to the conclusion that I am "healed" "according to Reach"? I have simply stated that I have had periods of work with a counsellor/s from Reach, where does the term 'healed' come into that? I don't think any of us have the right to say we are 'healed', that's dangerously close to saying we are 'fixed', which implies no forward journey in life, do we not still evolve? Grow? I may well be heal-ing, but I am not healed, nor would I claim to be.

"Please don't provoke me"? - I was not aware of any provocation, simply trying to point out that my username has no hidden meaning, I wasn't the one jumping to conclusions. By the same token, are you threatening me with that statement ex-l? If so, with what?
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post25 Feb 2012

Bright Spark wrote:By the same token, are you threatening me with that statement ex-l? If so, with what?

More analysis from a BK point of view. If you're not a BK it won't make much sense to you.

Professional ethics as regards therapy are very easy. You look at which association the therapist is a member of, you read their charter/manifesto/guidelines, you make a judgement on how they are performing.

Unfortunately, what we have discovered about the Brahma Kumaris leadership is that they are very devious and underhand. They'll talk about values, and exaggerate their own spiritual importance endless in private, but in public it is 'expedience' which matters. Therefore, they will represent themselves in whatever manner they think will 'sell' best. By "sell" I don't necessarily mean for money right away, I mean benefit their social climbing.

It was the parents of a very well known, early Western BK who once said, "The Brahma Kumaris taught our son to lie" and I think that is a very fair statement to make. Because of their extremist beliefs, which they have to keep hidden from most people and we have discovered they have lied about considerably, they have become like a secret service or mafia infiltrating society honing down their public relations operation. In my opinion, they are kind of like a feminine version of Scientology; someone else inside the organization once said a "female Freemasons".

Generally they will divide families, taking which ever members will succumb to them. They general drip feed their beliefs slowly, "taking the pulse" to see how much an individual will take.

In a case like yours, where you are sure that you have not been influenced or primed, what I would be asking myself is not 'if' but 'how much'.

Brahma Kumaris know that not every individual will surrender to them and become a BK but they talk of "planting seeds" of their "Knowledge" in the minds of non-BKs, watering them and encouraging them to what they see as the absolute truth. They believe your salvation in the next 5,000 year Cycle of Time will be dependent on what they show and tell you know.

You have to come to them to "earn your spiritual inheritance" for an eternity of these Cycles of Time. Only they and their god spirit can provide the truth.

Unless you had been through the BK sausage making machine, how would you know what you were looking for?

Something as simple as your business name would be a "good sign" to them, an encouragement, "Yes, we are bright sparks. That is the true nature of the soul". Did you never get invited nor go along to any of their retreats or programmes?

smiley50

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post28 Feb 2012

I came across this when I was searching for the Reach site and what I have read has angered and shocked me to say the least to the point that I had to stop what I was doing and type this.

I have walked the arduous path from the darkest depths of drug and alcohol abuse to well what for most is a normal life but for me is a dream come true with the help of Reach and Easton himself. To say I am angry does not even come close to the emotion the drivel and poison that I have read stirs up in me. I have no intention of going into any further detail about my personal private journey as the details are quiet irrelevant to what I have to say, and i did not seek out private and confidential advice to then post my personal story on the internet.

This site seems full of angry bitter people who are looking for an opportunity to attack something, its quite sad and has an air of irony, based on what I have seen those on here could really use someones help be it reach or some other mental healthcare professionals, to expend so much energy to attack a person or organisation must be a sign of some issues on some level. It is also a sad reflection of the world where anything positive has to be brought down into the gutter by those who are clearly already down there.

This 'Sun' newspaper style reporting on both Easton and Reach is inaccurate having taken a 5 year journey of ups downs progress and relapse, NOT ONCE was god discussed. NOT ONCE was I pushed in any direction or 'brain washed' towards any belief system which is not proof of how good he is at doing it :D hilarious, its because it did not happen. I have been the other side of my own personal challenges for 3 and half years now and well I still like a glass of wine with my meal and sometimes even 2 but I no longer have the desire to drink untilI 'cannot feel anything'. I saw a reference to vegetarianism and "being charged triple if you where a nympho steak eating alcoholic' and well I must have had a discount for 2 out of 3! (I cannot do the thing where you pull quotes out of other posts still a newbie so forgive me if I have misquoted but I am sure you wont mind that ;) ).

I am still the same person I was and having been through this journey all I have lost is the desire for self destruction and the fear of what others think of me, I have recommended 2 people too Reach and have told them about what I read and they have reacted similarly to me, I think once those who have personal experience of reach or Easton himself get wind of what is clearly a few peoples personal issues being dressed as some moral mission to save the innocent, you may have more of a challenge to prove what you are talking about. The Sun now has a Sunday paper surely this has generated a few more jobs I think a few of you should get yourselves down there!!

I think the cowedly way of perpetuating your vendetta takes all validly out of your claims name yourself show your evidence, stop referencing hearsay, surely you are dangerously close to slander with some of your comments?? I think you the question needs asking why are you 'really' trying to bring down a person and organisation that has helped me and countless others... Given your allegations the organisation you claim Reach to be a front of should have had a increase in numbers if Reach is programming people to become members can you correlate the numbers going through Reach's doors to the number of new BKs? or are we all 'sleeper' BKs waiting for the the switch to go off and don't even know it.... :D

Seriously spend your time trying to do something half as positive and you take your personal issues with any of the afore mentioned organisations and let them go as you just sound bitter and twisted rather than trying enlighten and save others. I feel sorry for you and hope you find peace sometime but this is not the way. Take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself why are you really doing all of this, but you may not like the answer.

I await your venomous retort...
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post28 Feb 2012

smiley30 wrote:I await your venomous retort ...

I don't think a reputable psychotherapist ... if that is what Enigma is (he does not list his qualifications/professional on the company site) ... would come onto a public website and accuse an ex-patient of being "arrogant ... damaged ... short-sighted ... self-righteous". I would expect them to apologise sincerely, hoped they got better, and offer some kind of compensation.

I don't think it is very helpful to tell someone who is "damaged" that they are "damaged" even if they are. It could even come across as conceited to do so. What I'd expect is tolerance, understanding and compassion.

And what I note in both of your objections to this discussion is anger and aggression, two very unspiritual qualities. Perhaps you should go back to Reach, and do more work on such issues? For all we know, the BKs within Reach might have just "taken your pulse" felt that you were not just BK material (yet) and so never encouraged that aspect ... whereas with others they do.

You see, the problem is you know nothing of Brahma Kumarism, its language, beliefs, evolution and the movement's principles.

Stuff which might appear perfectly acceptable to you, e.g. co-prosperity and business networking at "church" (BK center), is actually against BK Principles as is/was using the BK community as a business market therefore, we tend to judge from a BK point of view, not a "lokik" or worldly point of view.

Engima came onto this forum waved a magic wand saying, "wrong, wrong, wrong ... it is all untrue" (approx) without being specific and then disappeared off. Without him clarifying his relationship with the BK cult and being a bit more specific, it is impossible to answer him.

Is it possible that someone believes all of time is a 5,000 year long cycle which repeats endless, that God possesses an old lady in India and speaks through her, and 6 billion non-BKs must die to that 900,000 BKs can go to heaven on earth ... and also be nice and help people? Yes.

So what is the problem?
alanna wrote:I do think Reach has a BK agenda. I was told all the counsellors have been through the process themselves before they start helping others through it, and this means they really believe it works and they genuinely think it can help others. But counsellors shouldn't be steering clients towards a goal that has been pre-defined without the client's input, particularly when said counsellor is a member of a cult! (Although I am not sure if all the counsellors are BKs). Of course I am only basing all this on one limited experience and my own subjective conclusions, but my current counsellor is very concerned about their practice.

In terms of Reach being a counselling service for BKs, I know someone at my old centre had problems with depression etc. and he went to them and is now better, but of course still a BK. I decided to give it a go as I thought it would be useful to speak with an insider who understood the BKs, but I now think I had a lucky escape, and what I actually needed was someone who could give me an outsider's view and who understood cults. I also know that my counsellor had at least one other BK/ex-BK client. One could potentially view them as a re-programming course for troubled BKs, but I really don't have enough information or experience with them to come to that conclusion.

smiley50

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post28 Feb 2012

You're just making yourself sound worse with every post my friend and I believe I pointed out my anger in my own post ... in fact, in the first line ... so how astute of you to pick up on that. I am angry that such a select group of small minded individuals would look to cause damage to a person who does not deserve it and is not guilty of the claims being made against him. I am passionate about going from the brink of losing my life at my own hands and now living a fulfilled and happy one which only as a result of contact with Easton/Reach and will not stand by and watch a good man attacked. The man who saved my life!

Where did i claim I was spiritual or seeking spirituality ... where did I claim I was seeking to not get angry when i am faced with injustice?? You are starting to clutch at straws as your weak argument crumbles around you. I read Enigma's eloquent and detailed response which really you have only selectively responded to and have applied the art of distraction by trying to engage in a conversation about the BKs rather than realising he has shot your arguments down in one post.

How convenient that I was not BK material ... is that going to be the response to anyone who challenges your point of view. :D

Hiding behind my lack of understanding of the the BKs is an nice easy place for you to run to when your weak argument has its legs take away ... but in fact gives me my strongest response ... WHAT DO YOUN KNOW ABOUT THE REACH APPROACH'S PRACTICES AND METHODS? I have been through a 5 year journey in case you missed that bit I am as qualified as anyone to speak of the methods employed.

As with anyone who does not know what they are talking about or who are not working with FACTs you are quick to use diversion by changing the direction of conversation, I know little about the BKs, this is true, but when everything you accuse Easton and Reach of perpetuating (in context to the 5000 etc) bares no resemblance to personal experience and that of 2 close friends, I am inclined to go with the personal experience, sorry.

As I asked in my previous post why are you doing this, is this purely to save others?? Please give us your background and give us the reasons why we should believe you? You are so quick to call out Reach and Easton, who are you and what makes your intensions more pure than his or anyone elses for that matter? Let's hear what qualifies you to stand as judge and jury on this matter? Again I would love some FACTUAL back up to your arguments

In my opinion, you seem like someone who has attempted to do something and failed and are now determined to bring down anyone or anything that appears to be trying to do something positive ... As I said previously its really sad and I feel beyond my anger, sorry for you that for what ever reason you have to try and destroy something that is trying to do nothing but good which is very rare.

Does any of that sound angry or lacking in spiritually? If so further proof then that the reach approach is not trying to turn people in to god bothers ;). No wait I was proved unsuitable ... brilliant.

Again I am sure you have some vague yet appearing to be deep response which will be cloaked in things pertaining to the BKs that I don't understand and make it all sound terrible and bad but will not contain any FACTS that prove Reach a front for them ... that being the case I am unlikely to waste anymore time engaging with someone whose mind is closed to anything but their own opinion.

But I will leave you with this thought some of your accusations are borderline slanderous ... I don't know what this site's rules are and i don't know the legal ramifications but it may be worth checking you can back up what you say before you continue down this path your so determined to defend ... opinions are one thing accusations are something else entirely.

starchild

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post28 Feb 2012

I would like to reiterate that there have been allegations of serious abuse (through involvement with the Brahma Kumaris) posted on this site, over many years and from persons from many backgrounds.

I cannot say what successes and help Reach has provided for people over the years.

However, where there are even possibility of abuse and damage; an organization offering therapy to vulnerable people surely has a duty of care to investigate and take seriously such allegations.

I would say that featuring retreat centers on a website is endorsing (if not advertising), that centre.

I do not know how ethical it is considered (within the therapy and counselling monitoring boards) for (what should be) an impartial therapy group, to advertise religious retreats.

I see nothing slanderous in the questions that are raised here.

I do however wonder at the approach taken by Enigma to make a statement and then refuse to engage any further. This is the person who should be taking the most seriously, any allegations of abuse, or any exposure to anything that might compromise a clients mental and emotional welfare.

It looks slightly suspect not to be able to look objectively and critically at such serious issues. Also the responses from those who are championing the Reach Approach (which I am sure everyone is happy that these people have improved their lives), however, their attitude that everyone on this site is embittered, (or has tried something and failed at it !!!) is naive at best, from a responsible point of view, as professional therapists, might be seen as negligence in duty of care.

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post28 Feb 2012

I promised myself i would not get drawn into a debate with people who have formed an opinion with little evidence and are so adamant they are right ... but to clarify my statements ...
however, their attitude that everyone on this site is embittered, (or has tried something and failed at it !!!) is naive at best, from a responsible point of view, as professional therapists, might be seen as negligence in duty of care

I am talking about those in this thread. I don't doubt that many of those posting on this site as a whole have genuine issues and do not claim to know everyones story ... but the tone of those IN THIS THREAD claim to know the answer their own question, this is not a discussion it is an opportunity for certain individuals to cast aspersions against an individual and organisation (Reach).
I do however wonder at the approach taken by Enigma to make a statement and then refuse to engage any further. This is the person who should be taking the most seriously, any allegations of abuse, or any exposure to anything that might compromise a clients mental and emotional welfare.

As for Enigma not responding further I would suggest that someone gives him something to respond to as I said in my previous post which again has been ignored no one has responded to the points HE made which put holes in your arguments, but instead there has been a call to engage in jousting on issues that those in this thread would like to talk about ... either way its clear in his post its all he has to say, as regardless of what anyone says those in this thread will continue to defame and attack something they have no knowledge about.

I literally have no more to say as I feel I will get drawn into a unconstructive debate and my frustration at the arrogance that those who know so little of what they speak about with such certainty makes me angry and as a result could prevent so many people getting the amazing help I received. It all points to hidden agendas and personal issue as I keep saying. I just hope that those who do see this thread hear my message and can see the glaring holes in the arguments of those who choose to continue to peruse an inaccurate 'truth'.

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post28 Feb 2012

Professional ethics as regards therapy are very easy. You look at which association the therapist is a member of, you read their charter/manifesto/guidelines, you make a judgement on how they are performing.

That is exactly what I did ex-l. Both with my own practitioner and with Easton Hamilton. As far as I am concerned, their credentials are impeccable. Before you ask, no, I do not know why they are not publicized on the site. They do however, stack up and bore investigation. Again, before you ask, no, I will not share them here, its not my place. As i have said before, if you are that bothered pick up the phone, dialogue is surely better in person.

Members comments about a tone of aggression are not unfounded, I am sorry for my part in that. I think for the uninitiated amongst us (i.e. me), our defensive hackles are bound to be raised, the fear of all our good work being undermined by what we feel are unfounded allegations is powerful, and frightening. But please, don't seek to patronize us, or negate our heartfelt belief in our own process. Anger is simply a byproduct of fear after all.

External powers/higher beings are not part of the process I have been through with reach. Surrendering to a movement, or embracing a way of life built on anything but self reliance is simply alien to my experience. To answer ex-l's earlier question, no, I have not been invited to a retreat, or encouraged to go. Neither have I been approached with any reading around the subject. Obviously, this may mean to you that I am not "suitable material" but I have been to group sessions at reach itself and have been encouraged in the past to pursue qualification in the field by them. The group sessions were helpful, and not at all 'white robes' etc, they were much more faith in oneself etc. In terms of qualification, they suggested a local university post graduate course and becoming accredited with the BCA.

I hope that answers a few questions. I do feel that your tone in particular ex-l comes across as very patronizing, perhaps that is just a by product of the written word, but you do seem unwilling to accept any validity in some of the supporting experiences of reach approach "veterans", and are quick to jump to conclusions which support your particular view.
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post28 Feb 2012

smiley50 wrote:How convenient that I was not BK material ... is that going to be the response to anyone who challenges your point of view. :D

Pretty much.

From our point of view we would be asking ethical question like, "Why when Enigma is aware of serious abuses and deception within the BK movement is not he doing anything about them ... why is he promoting them via their fronts or spin off business instead?"

Let me state it without any fear. The Brahma Kumaris have carried on a global confidence trick ... for the sake of property and cash and broken many laws doing so ... over the last 40 years ever since they left India. We have proven that.

Our job is to raise people like Engima's awareness of that in the hope we can stop or change it. It has little or nothing to do with his private business.
I know little about the BKs, this is true, but when everything you accuse Easton and Reach of perpetuating (in context to the 5000 etc) bares no resemblance to personal experience and that of 2 close friends.

Well ... you need to be careful them because at present this entire defence of Reach is looking like the coordinated efforts of angry "saved" followers irrationally defending their healing guru.

What is really needed is for the guru himself to stop forward and engage in the very serious issues we are raising, and do something about the BKWSU.

It may well be possible to believe 6,000,000,000 people must die terribly in an awful, nuclear powered cataclysm called "Destruction" so that 900,000 of your own religion can inherit a magic heaven on earth in 2036 ... and still genuinely help people.

I'd just like to read Engima's defence of the methods the Brahma Kumari leadership use, or the effort he has made to change them.

In his post he speaks of his "past" involvement with the Brahma Kumaris but nothing of his "current" involvement. I'd just like to know if he is part of it or not?

Bright Spark

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post28 Feb 2012

Ask him then. Simple. 0121 354 2746. Let us know how you get on instead of impotently shouting over the internet.

Enigma

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post28 Feb 2012

To Whom It May Concern:

I had made it clear in my previous posting that it would be my one and only entry, because I’ve learned over the years that there’s no point talking when people are not listening! I have to confess that I would not have gone against this remark had I not had a number of people ringing to query some of what they’ve heard and read as a consequence of this forum.

I’m not going to get into claim and counter claim because what has been demonstrated in what I’ve seen documented since my posting, is that there’s so much anger, hurt and accusation here that despite the repeated protestations that this has been about saving others the real intentions keep spilling out. These clearly are to discredit me and what I represent.

If the what have now become slanderous and defamatory remarks continue I will definitely seek to take what action is allowed within the law against those administering this site/forum (as the individuals behind the accusations are hidden), because it has become clear that there is now a complete disregard for the facts!

Here are the facts:

Reach has never been affiliated to the BKs in any way nor will it be. And I am not affiliated to the BKs either.

Did you really read what I wrote? My affiliations are to philosophy, spirituality, psychology, cutting edge science ... essentially synergy, i.e. how the world fits together. These selective, desperate attempts to make a connection that isn’t there are sad and pointless but I suspect they will continue. If they do I will now not be hesitating to address the question ‘is Reach a BK con?’ I won’t be wasting my time in pointless debate here, I will seek legal redress. So just in case it wasn’t heard the first time, neither I nor Reach are affiliated to the Brahma Kumaris and if you had read the work produced over the last 22 years, lots of which is posted on our site and makes our position clear, then the question wouldn’t even be asked!

I’d like to take the opportunity to thank those who’ve come and spoken about their experiences and in defence of me personally and Reach. I am grateful for your kindness.

Sadly, because they didn’t share your views, they had to be asked if they were put up to this by me.... again more insults. I can tell you that I would not ask anyone to speak on my behalf as I’m more than capable of doing that for myself. I myself have resisted responding for such a long time but my concern now is that people who need help may be affected by this verbal assassination of me and something I am proud to be associated to.

Reach is an organization that has no hidden agenda. We’ve built what we do on integrity and conscience. I suggest you go and find a different battle to fight where there is genuinely something negative or evil taking place! I hope this defamation will now cease.

Easton Hamilton
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

Enigma wrote:... I am not affiliated to the BKs either.

No one is suggesting your company is owned by, or operated by the BKs. Using a word like "affiliated" is open to misinterpretation, so let's keep it simple.

    When did you stop going to the center?
    Do you still believe in The Knowledge?

(And if you care to get into philosophical discussion, do you still believe Shiva Baba is God, or how has your conception changed since you left?)
Enigma wrote:If the what have now become slanderous and defamatory remarks continue I will definitely seek to take what action is allowed within the law against those administering this site/forum (as the individuals behind the accusations are hidden), because it has become clear that there is now a complete disregard for the facts!

You would not want to go down the legal route when you are presenting people like Masaru Emoto* as a "Doctor", (see Simon Singh wins Libel Case). The administrators are not responsible comments made by other individuals.

Far better to just calm down and have a reasonable and open 'Om Shanti' chat.

(* Emoto is not a doctor. His work, however, inspiring, is 'touchy feely' pseudoscience and New Age business, not real science. The Open International University for Complementary Medicines (OIUCM) is a 'diploma mill' and not listed as a recognized, degree granting institution by any official Sri Lankan educational department, nor any international groups.).
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ex-l

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Re: Reach Approach & the Brahma Kumaris

Post29 Feb 2012

Unfortunately, the Brahma Kumaris ... through their proven and considerable historical revision, including the concealing of failed predictions of Destruction and their founder's claims of being God ... have carried out almighty sized confidence trick towards Westerners since they came here in the 70s. Fact. Let's drag them into court to discuss those.

Apart from claiming to be a University ... when they are not ... one way they dodge around these issues is by legally claiming to have "no members". In this way, an individual can be a fully surrendered BK center-in-charge ... but, legally, still not a member of the BKWSU/BKWSO.

Who or what then are BKs? It is all very confusing, and I argue unethical, at a human level. I would say that the BKs routinely see themselves as above "devillish" worldly laws.

No one is denying any good Enigma might have done. Like any business, one has to accept there will always be some errors or mistakes, or dissatisfied customers. All we'd like to be able to discuss fairly are the BK or ex-BK connections.
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