Women's Movement Issues

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tete

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Re: Women's Movement Issues

Post23 May 2008

Tom,
UN Report wrote:It adds that 70% of the world's poor are women and they own just 1% of the world's titled land.

Shocking!
tom wrote:Exhibiting violence in wrong context and place is violence itself. I find this old fashioned activist style provocative and aggressive.

"Women's Movement Issues" is the place to bring about the acts of violence, inequities and inhumanity towards women 50% + of the world's population. Would hiding the brutal truth make it less brutal? I don't understand the PBK thread and so I don't read them. Might I suggest that you not look at "Women's Movement Issues" and continue to keep your eyes closed in this respect. I am sorry that an "old fashioned" person such as myself has caused you discomfort and that you feel I have brought "violence" upon you by bringing these injustices to the awareness of a few. I promise not to send any invites to you for any future Women's Rights march and I am sorry that you feel I have tarnished this forum by placing some world truths in it.

Please ask the Admin to close of the topic, after all I am not an ex-BK.

Regards,
Tete
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tom

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Re: Women's Movement Issues

Post23 May 2008

Thanks Bansy and Tete, for helping me understand, that I am in a wrong place.

BTW, what about millions of men who are psychologically and physically disabled because of circumcision?

Tom
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tete

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Re: Women's Movement Issues

Post23 May 2008

Tom,
You are not in the wrong place, you have every right to be and go where you chose. You bring about a good point: male circumcision.
Mens Stuff.org wrote:* 85% of the worlds male population is intact.
* The US is the only Country that routinely circumcises their infant males.
* Our country passed a bill to protect females from being sexually mutilated ... WHY doesn't this bill protect males from being sexually mutilated.

So, Tom I encourage you to start a thread on Men's Rights Movement and all the relevant points. I don't think anyone is telling you, you don't belong but rather you are giving an ultimatum. At any rate perhaps I need a vacation and let you continue on. Good wishes to you and yours.
]
Regards,
Tete
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john morgan

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Re: Women's Movement Issues

Post23 May 2008

Dear Tom,

Apparently a long time ago the Jews were enslaved and to emasculate them they were circumcised. As circumcision was compulsory for all jewish males, the jewish mind made a virtue of it. The practice still continues in Jewish communities.

I once had a stint in an operating theatre. The empathetic pain I felt was far worse for a circumcision than it was for any other type of operation.
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ex-l

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Re: Women's Movement Issues

Post24 May 2008

Female circumcision is mostly a Moslem thing and not an Indian/Hindu things at all. Historically, both forms of circumcision appear to be intent on reducing sexual pleasure and thereby inducing social controls (see link). If anyone is interested in taking up the issue either personally or within the BKWSU (... ha-ha-ha), try; Ornella Moscucci, "Clitordectomy, Circumcision, and the Politics of Sexual Pleasure in Mid-Victorian Britain". Indiana University Press, Bloomington and Indianapolis, 1996 as a starter. Otherwise, I agree, it is headed 'off forum'.

Perhaps a link rather than multiple graphic videos might have been enough and I have to severely caution against the 'guilt tripping' element of the response to Tom's post, i.e. the suggestion that to freely question the effectiveness of such posts is on a par with ignoring the Jewish Holocaust ... this is just insulting "Reductio ad Hitlerum". Tete, may be your history of being banned has more to do with your modus operandi, or simple refusal to listen to the hints others are giving you, rather than a condemnation of the worthy issues you support.

I cannot remember the "kevin" issue but I do remember he also got banned from the official BKWSU discussion forum.
bansy wrote:Regarding this thread's content, the BKWSU is founded on aspects of women's position is society. Some of the posts in this thread could reflect some of the issues. Women often do not speak out on these issues openly.

I think, given the endemic whitewash and historical revision, one really needs to question whether "women's position is society" was really Lekhraj Kirpalani's founding purpose, whether his (or the incognito holy ghost of the first 20 years) sub-conscious "Krishna Fantasy" (of being God surrounded by gopis) was primary; whether it was just incidental that only women and children were free during the day and turned up to his satsangs or that his satsangs were not that deep and the psychism only worked on the more open and vulnerable. I only mention the former because of what his legal advocate mentioned of them, i.e. (approx) "good enough for uneducated Amil women".

Personally, I think the "women up front" policy - and specifically using Om Radhe as a figure head - was largely just a good strategy developed during the "Anti-Party" episode. It is obvious from 'Is this Justice" and the that Om Radhe was not actually writing it ... a male was. And these days one has to wonder who runs the BKWSU/World Renewal Trust; the women figureheads or the male accountant, secretary etc. I do not think that the Brahma Kumaris belong amongst "The Women's Movement" and only piggyback upon it as they do anything else that serves THEIR needs.

One relevance to this topic that I can think of are statistics taken from research within V.S. Lalrinawma's, "The Liberation of Women in and through the Movement of the Prajapita Brahma Kumaris" (ISPCK, Cambridge Press, Delhi. ISBN 81-7214-771-6) that state, even despite its fairly flattering and sycophantic tone, that the majority of BK followers thought that the Brahma-kumaris did NOT do enough for women, or women's rights, on a practical level. I cant remember the figures, perhaps someone can dig it out.

I would agree with this as I think an even bigger proportion of non-BKs would. I would guess that most non-BKs wonder what the heck the Brahma-kumaris ARE doing ... except for running a typical guru racket promoting themselves, collecting wealth and real estate whilst keeping up a minimal worthy looking front. For me, the over-riding principle in the BKWSU is NOT 'women's rights' but 'caste ascendency' ('social climbing' by a primarily lower merchant class) in which some women take on dominant male roles AND in some cases exhibit negative male tendencies.

In my opinion, the BKWSU avoid any strong controversies that might impact on their social climbing, i.e. not rocking the patriarchal boat too much and not, as a rule, concerning themselves with social work. Not rocking the patriarchal boat because they want to be the captain of it. To an extent, they have the right to do so as much as, say, a business person "has the right" to ignore both religion and social work just to focus on making money.

Having said all that. I think Tom's response was a fair signal from the social barometer, just as the "ex-l damaging the forum" topic was, that this mode was going too far 'off forum' and I agree that unless there is some 'lane discipline' this forum could become swamped and irrelevant. As Tom states, there are many other far more productive arenas to engage in the discussion of such issues ... especially practically in direct communication with the religions and societies involved in it. So what if it is "voiced" here ... better to spend that energy direct on the perpetrators themselves.

The same too is true of "BKWSU beating". Rather than "be seen to post here", it would be better for all to write some letters, send them out and become actively involved ... or even to offer a better alternative.

I think it is untrue to suggest that forum members, or even active BKs, are insensitive about such issues. One needs to guard about becoming over-emotional about them. To do so suggests that the issues are a mask to more pressing personal issues that are NOT being discussed, e.g. related personal pains. It may not be the issues but the over-emotional or over-expressive nature of the argument that puts other off and anyone running a forum has to put aside the personal, however worthy, for the overview of what the forum is about. I flagged that two video showed girls/young women crying ... I have to ask if there is a related personal pain you want to discuss here?

There is the question of "appropriateness", e.g. when and where it is most effective to raise issues and how much of it is part of the "look at me I am good" currency typical in 'bleeding heart' liberalism. If the forum is being used in attempt to recruit others for other causes, then I think it is inappropriate. If the forum is being used in an attempt to effect BKs and the BKWSU to change positively, then may be is it appropriate.

I do not think multiple graphic videos an effective way of doing it. I think they just tend to overload, fuse and then switch individuals off. (As I can with my stuff).
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bansy

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Re: Women's Movement Issues

Post24 May 2008

Having said all that. I think Tom's response was a fair signal from the social barometer, just as the "ex-l damaging the forum" topic was, that this mode was going too far 'off forum' and I agree that unless there is some 'lane discipline' this forum could become swamped and irrelevant.

I agree. I think the cause is accessing the forum as it seems that (well at least for me, maybe also for others too) I tend to click on "New Posts" to get a list of all the recent chats and so the threads that come up are from all subforums. And say halfway through browsing the posts, you logout, the next time you login, all those unread new posts no longer appear. And because of the general open nature of the forum, a post in one subforum may be still good discussion material than in another, and sometimes it is not (revelant to one's taste).

But the forum has grown in width and depth, and maybe it is just practical hints of accessing this huge forum for new members, if old timers like myself sometimes get lost too !

After some thought I also realise that Tom does raise an good issue in that what issue is really BKWSU related and what is not ? I recall Tom rightly concerns about Burma cyclone, and by just by timely coincidence I mentioned China suddenly had a disaster too, and then with all the news of these food shortages and biofuels and oil prices, etc. We could almost pin every sort of world affair to be something related to the BKWSU, after all, they are supposed to sort of purify the environment before destruction occurs, or does it seem that more worst news is to come in the following years.

I recall in the past that the BKWSU used to do sakaash meditations for affected areas in the world each week by finding which area in the world was suffering and BKs were to send their vibrations to that region. It often became a type of geography lesson for the uneducated BKs in India. Does this go on anymore? Is this forum raising issues (such as Tom's concern in Burma, and women issues in this thread) that are seemingly neglected now by the BKWSU, whereas anything that is directed in India will get its full attention ?
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tete

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Re: Women's Movement Issues

Post30 Jun 2011

Op.Enough-ANONYMISS


It would appear the younger generation of women are more direct in confronting misogyny and oppression and won't tolerate being shamed. Wowza!
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tete

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Re: Women's Movement Issues

Post11 Apr 2012

Girl Killers - India

An Indian proverb says raising a daughter is like watering your neighbour's garden and the burden of having girls means many are killed at birth. We follow the difficult lives of those who survive the practice.

Twenty seven percent of Indians live below the poverty line and as a women, this economic status brings a life of enmity. A bride's parents must provide a dowry which often bankrupts the family. As a result female infanticide is a widespread tradition: "We accept the first girl, the second should be killed, then the third will be a son." But now the women are fighting back by forming self-help groups which offer a range of programmes from skills training, to saving and loan schemes. It's all in the hope that through giving women a more constructive role in society more girls will be saved. March 2012




&

Baby Afreen’s death shows preference for sons in India

Source: Dawn.com | AFP
A three-month-old baby girl that police say was battered by her Father who wanted a son died on Wednesday, highlighting the plight of millions of India’s “unwanted girls”.

Neha Afreen died from cardiac arrest at a state-run hospital in India’s tech hub of Bangalore after battling for life for three days.
http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/children/c-central-and-south-asia/children-in-india/2246-death-of-baby-afreen.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LatestFromSafeWorld+%28Latest+from+Safe+World%29


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