Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK ones

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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howiemac

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post20 Jan 2013

(back on topic)

As a teenager I was an atheist, and scientific rationalist. This was my response, from an early age, to the feeble attempts of my churchy parents and The Church of Scotland to teach me their path.

But once I hit my 20s - nigh on 20 years before encountering the BKWSU - I became more and more aware of receiving subtle guidance, and assistance in times of crisis. I was soon believing absolutely in God on the basis of these experiences. For a long while I thought it was God that was guiding, supporting, and talking to me, and I never thought deeply about it or studied theology or whatever - it was experiential, with accumulating evidence that I could only explain in terms of "God", although my concept of God remained very vague. I rejected all religion on principle, except that I did become interested in Buddhism for a while, but rejected it as it seemed to deny God.

Then, aged 27, I started on a journey of earnest spiritual seeking, and soon started receiving a lot of visionary experiences, some of which I have already described in earlier posts on this forum. I met Brahma Baba / BapDada in the white light Subtle Regions, and Shiv Baba in Paramdham. I had no idea who these beings were, only that they were very familiar, and the experiences were sublime and astonishing. I then understood that it was Brahma Baba who had been guiding and assisting me for all those years, and that he was NOT God, but like a friendly elder Brother in ghost form, who was teaching me many things, and looking out for me, as I stumbled around in my ignorance doing stupid things. Shiv Baba came across as a very special soul, different from the others - lighter and more playful - but I certainly did not perceive him (it) as God either. (I had no names for Brahma and Shiva then - until 12 years later the BKs supplied their names).

I remained God centered, understanding God as the universal omnipresent God that the Murlis keep ridiculing. I had a conscious waking outdoor experience of that omnipresence, that was very real and lasted for maybe 20 minutes - I became one with all of creation, with the corn in the fields, the trees, plants insects, birds, animals, humans: a stunning and beautiful experience of one-ness.

Nothing in BK life or teachings describes or explains that experience.

I still have that concept of God, but when I was with the BKs I switched to accepting Shiv Baba as God, as, quite simply, it worked, spectacularly, in terms of deep Yoga, and self transformation (destroying sanskars that were a burden).

Since then I returned to my previous omnipresent non-personal conception of God. However, I have recently decided again to accept "Shiv Baba" as "God" because I have direct experience of him (it) and that experience continues on a daily basis (nothing to do with the BKWSU), while the impersonal universal God is just a concept or feeling, not a living being. Now I accept both concepts of God, a Zen approach that I no longer try to intellectualise, or worry about.

I have concluded that it is useless to intellectualise around God. You have to go by your own experiences. And mine produces two incompatible results! Which one is God? Is either one God? It doesn't matter!

However, one thing is clear to me: do not accept the teachings or opinions of others on the basis of faith or indoctrination. Find your own answers that work for you.
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clearernow

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post20 Jan 2013

Please block me if you wish from blogging ex-l - if there was nothing positive about BKs to you then why bother about reforming them? You can only reform something where there is something worthwhile!

Anyways will stay away from this topic by concluding (for myself) that my personal connection with God was experienced and deepened through BK association - it still works beautifully and that sweet connection is for me the gift of BKs - the most positive part of my life. Cheers.
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ex-l

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post20 Jan 2013

clearernow wrote:my personal connection with God was experienced and deepened through BK association - it still works beautifully and that sweet connection is for me the gift of BKs - the most positive part of my life.

You know, you've really added nothing of any depth or benefit to this discussion. At least you admit that although you've left the BKWSU, or perhaps never had the strength to follow its disciplines, you still keep the same god.

You've come to try to spoil things, and that is it. Why? It strikes me your being a bit self-centered and all that you are interested in doing is protecting the value or importance of your 'experience'. You're not happy that it is 'just' an experience, it has to be "God ... most Supreme ... Global ... Highest ...". It all has this expansive, exaggerative quality ... and, as we have seen, a deceptive, intoxicating quality.

In the future, until matters are clearer and we know what is going on, please at least be a little cautious and humble and say something like, "the god or spirit guide of the BKs".

Yes, I have always agreed. You can have nice trippy experiences with the BKs. I know that ... My question is, "Yes, but where is it all going ... to what purposes is it being put?". Enslavement or liberation, suppression or growth?
... if there was nothing positive about BKs to you then why bother about reforming them? You can only reform something where there is something worthwhile!

That's not logical. Criminal gangs, abusers and cults are good to reform. The difference between a cult and religion are ethics, accountability, a bit of democracy, true empowerment not enslaving of its adherents. The Brahma Kumaris are just a cult.

Well done if you got a free lunch and never gave them any money ... but here you are paying back by working for them for free.


For me, I am more interested in protecting and accurately informing outsiders. The day I see the BKs sponsoring modern public latrines and liberating the women of lowest castes of India ... instead of glorifying themselves and sucking up to big business and VIPs ... is the day I'll start to respect them. Funnily enough, that is what their god used to say he was going to do.

Oh, you can add to that, taking the side of workers rights rather than consultation fees for pacifying workers from corporations.

But then there's also the small question of "giving courage to the scientists" to use the nuclear arsenal to wipe out 7 billion people. Perhaps they should be included in the discussion too? There's not room in heaven for everyone, only 900,000 to 330 million BKs (... numbers Lekhraj Kirpalani stole from Hinduism and probably symbolic) despite what twaddle they spout to multi-faith groups.

God, to me, does not spout twaddle. Surely he has a little bit more self-respect?
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alladin

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Re: Pre- & Post-BK experiences of "God" compared with BK one

Post24 Jan 2013

Being in the BK army, is a bit like working for a corporation and not having any type of health insurance or retirement scheme. As long as you are fit, young, wealth, healthy and can give "man, tan & ban", you are welcome and the moment you have any kind of trouble, you are left to your own device; your business and your Karma ;)! Even though it is the organization itself, that through the skillful brainwashing, manipulation and mind games carried out by its gurus, is responsible for your having abandoned your studies, career, family, country, neglected your body, become exhausted and ill ...

They promote a cynical attitude, justify it and make it sound as a virtue, no compassion in sight. But there's benefit in everything; with widespread deception in the BKWSU, any time invested with them will test and develop one's discrimination power, the true capacity to see beyond lies and appearance. A way to get a "fool-proof" certificate valid for the rest of the Kalpa!!
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