Are you shocked to be on this forum?

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
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clearernow

BK supporter

  • Posts: 93
  • Joined: 17 Jan 2010

Re: Are you shocked to be on this forum?

Post25 Jan 2013

ex-l: I have expressed earlier on how much disinterest I have for the topic of Destruction as such because for me it carries no importance except to show urgency for my self development and recognizing the importance of present time. So for me present moment is the most important and I see tremendous benefit and alignment with BKs to shape my present.

Labels of Pukka and non-Pukka, or for that matter even BK or ex-BK are also not important for me. I have been associated with BKWSU in all these forms like lot of you over the last 14 years or so but I have never left the connnection with the divine and I cannot confine my current journey into the labels you wish me to define. I think you basically want to see whether I know enough about "inner workings" and Murlis of BKs and for that answer is yes. I have been associated with lot of centres in India, Europe and US so I don't carry an Indian or Western view on BKs either. In essence, I carry an independent view about BKs and that should be enough for you to find the common ground.

Inner peace, bliss, transformation- development of all facets of life through the power of spirituality, deepening the beautiful connection with the divine and enriching my relationship with God is what is most important to me and all of this has come through to me through BKWSU. Before you ask your typical question about BKs' God vs My God and Your God - let me tell you that I am content with my connection and faith and it doesn't matter if you wish to label that being as a non-supreme God or whatever ... I have done my experiments on various aspects of knowledge, Murlis and Yoga which is what shapes my life. I cannot imagine my life without the company of the divine that was enabled through BKs and getting more enriched through the association with BKs. I have never lost anything through BK association but continue to gain so much.
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bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

  • Posts: 489
  • Joined: 14 Jun 2007

Re: Are you shocked to be on this forum?

Post25 Jan 2013

I made a conscious choice when I joined the BKs but it was ill informed.

I was fooled by my early experiences with them which I naively thought were experiences of God. It lead me to develop faith in their teachings and join the movement. At that time there was nothing to suggest that the leadership had falsified the story of its origins.

Had I known back then that it was a fraud, I would not have given it 22 years of my life.

As far as I am concerned, the blissful experiences defense is irrelevant. Dressing it up nicely, or dipping it in honey, changes nothing to the fact that it is a fraud. I laud this site for exposing and condemning it.
    How could a fraud give birth to a world of Truth?
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ex-l

ex-BKWSU

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  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Are you shocked to be on this forum?

Post26 Jan 2013

bkti-pit,

a few years ago I bumped into another ex-BK that I know had gone through a very bad time with the BKs. He was one of the very first "foreign jewels" but because he was an artist soul, and at that time the inner circle were ignorant, uneducated fundamentalist bigots who were most interested in building up the business to sustain their religion on the back of the Hindus and their money, he was encouraged to give up his education and chosen profession to do something acceptable within their smallminded value system.

Of course, yes, things have changed to some degree now, and they realise the business values of such elements withn the Western BK and even India, but back then they were different and they ruined his life. God knows why he stuck with them, I guess he was just hypnotised like the rest of us and took time to shake it free.

He told me that he has also read this site and was amazed. He had enter Gyan in the late 1970s, shortly after the 1976 failed Destruction, and they had told him nothing of all this. He was completely enculted without know and he said exactly the same as you.

Had he know about the cover ups and changes, he would have never given a second of his time. It's not about the facts alone, it is about their lack of self-honestly and ethics ... this is why I am so hard about this.
    Either you condone such lack of self-honesty and ethics ... and think it is an acceptable part of the business
    Or you condemn such lack of self-honesty and ethics ... at which point you probably have to disassociate yourself from them because they don't want to change.
For many ex-BKs, that time comes along at a point of almost total collapse then they are basically broke or broken.

For the BKs, it's business first and feeding off souls second. I think they like to surround themselves with the rich and powerful the better, or the young and attractive (the kunyas, rich foreigners) to make themselves look better to attract more. Yes, most BK followers were good and sincere people who meant well, they are the victims who are being fed off. It's just that their leaders make them dishonest.

For me, the ones I condemn most are the ones who are intelligent, see all this and know what is going on ... and then still go along with it because it gives them something, it feeds their ego.

Ethically, the only thing one can do on discovering the truth of the BKs is step back and out right away, whether you want to step back in to try and save or protect other people is your own decision. It's unfortunately that these leaders and enabler are possess to keep encroaching on others and trying to extend their religion into new areas using naive new blood that knows nothing of the past.
clearernow wrote:I think you basically want to see whether I know enough about "inner workings" and Murlis of BKs and for that answer is yes.

No, that is not why am asking and your response seems partly, covert ... as if you are hiding things from us. It is not clear and simply straightforward. I still have no idea where you actually stand with the BKWU ... and that is deliberate on your behalf.

What are you hiding?

Why I am asking is this? On one level, I simply wanted to know if you are a BK or not. You are not telling us. On another level, I look at BK related individuals from two basic views, a lokik and an alokik point of view.

Firstly, "lokik (worldly) is to say, I consider them just on a human level, e.g. are they nice, are they kind, are they cool and relaxed, or are they snobby, arrogant, defensive, even nasty and twisted etc. BKs are human too, they carry human traits, and I treat them as they are.

Secondly, I discern them from the BK point of view, i.e. do they follow the principles, do they do daily Amrit Vela and attended morning class, or have they left Baba and are they doing their own think, i.e. are they just on a big ego trip and potentially dangerous from a BK point of view. Baba warns of the dangers of going off on your own and attracting souls to yourself rather than him. BKism gives individuals a little power and an ego trip and makes them into an instant guru, some take this and use it for themselves.

I base that point of view on my own experiences, the time I spent close to the BK Seniors (who are now amongst the most senior in their religion) and the Murli. I judge what BKs say against what the Murli says.
I cannot imagine my life without the company of the divine that was enabled through BKs and getting more enriched through the association with BKs. I have never lost anything through BK association but continue to gain so much.

But its not "the divine" ... you mean BapDada in your case. The Divine means something else entirely. Please speak clearly and honesty here and don't use code words or propaganda to fool people.
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Patzcuaro

BK supporter

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  • Joined: 03 Jan 2013

Re: Are you shocked to be on this forum?

Post26 Jan 2013

clearernow wrote: If you have made a conscious choice and are sure about it then you will not regret it and enjoy the true beauty of a spiritual journey.

This is the main point. On this journey to go back to our original spiritual nature we will all receive hundreds of inputs, and it is important to assume that it'll take maturity to sort them and filter them, because it is normal that many of these inputs won't match with our level of consciousness but they will do to someone else by our side.

This does not mean that you have to critcize or spend hours and inmense amounts of your energy trying to destroy what you just saw or experienced. You just take it as an input that did not fit you and continue walking. It was not for you.

I agree that my experience on BK it was very positive, as it has been for hundreds of people I know but I also respect other's with a bad experience and it is good for them to express why they did not feel comfortable because it is good for them to bring it out and it could be usefull for others. I, personally, have had really bad experiences on other paths after BK.

It is simple, BK was what I needed at my personal level of consiousness, it was for me, but it could perfectly have been the opposite.

Having said this, I invite everyone that has a bad experience with BK or any other spiritual path or technique, to not stop for more than a couple of thoughts, to share it, and move on. Because otherwise you will paralyze your own process and this is what it should matter to you.

Do not allow yourself to transform a bad experience into an obstacle, use it as a step and continue.

This makes me think about something told to me by someone I respect so much:

"The opposite to real Love it is not hate, it's fear, because Love keeps you moving forward, and fear paralyzes you".

Love
Patzcuaro
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ex-l

ex-BKWSU

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Re: Are you shocked to be on this forum?

Post27 Jan 2013

Patzcuaro wrote:You just take it as an input that did not fit you and continue walking. It was not for you.

Patzcuaro, I sense a little 'coming down to earth and increased reasonableness in your last post ... however, I still disagree with you and your portray of what we do here (... and what is spreading all over the internet and into the general public's awareness of the BKWSU.

It really all depends on whether you have a social conscience or not.
social conscience

a sense of responsibility or concern for the problems and injustices of society.

The Brahma Kumaris would certainly prefer that individuals who left said nothing and just disappeared as it would allow them to escape being held accountable for their less enlightened attitudes. I consider your comment to have elements of typical mental and social control ... although, to be fair, they are not just Brahma Kumari but also belong to certain classes within society who consider "the lower orders (classes or castes)" have no right to voice their opinion, to question their "superiors" ... or to point out the corruption and indulgences of the elite.

This has been a problem the world over but is certainly pronounced amongst the crapbags of India.

The Brahma Kumari leaders put a lot of effort into "damage limitation" and controlling their adherents expression, even expression of valid concerns. In this case, they are really old fashioned ... which is something we have pointed out before ... the BKs are strangely comfortable with Right Wing, Conservative, authoritarian elements and act like them, threatening critics to silence them, if needs be, and attempting character assassinations. They prey on the fear and vulnerability of their sheep not to step out of the line they set, a line which disallows them to be questioned.

In plain Anglo-Saxon English ... **** that ... or to quote a famous 17th Century religious reformer
Jenny Geddes wrote:"Ye'll no' say mass in ma lug!"

The Brahma Kumari leaders spend a great deal of attention grooming and micro-managing their adherents self-expression according to values which they believe will benefit them best in their social climbing. They call this "being royal". The rest of the world would call it, "putting on airs and graces" (meaning pretending to be of a higher class than you actually are.

This grooming and micro-management extends as far as adherents use of words and language, the way they move and dress, even the style of their (facial) hair ... (they don't seem to mind if the Sisters have beard but they are not to keen if the Brothers having them for some strange reason). Any BK adherent who does not submit and 'come to heel' over this grooming will quick find themselves sidelined, openly criticised or excluded. It applies equally to the young virgins they encult to the retired old men.

The seem most comfortable tending towards the Right Wing, Conservative and authoritarian ... where the power that they seek sits ... and, hence, the worldly values they expressed are more align with appeasing and appealing to them rather than liberal or Left Wing ... Baba forbid the thought of anything more radical than that, like social justice movements etc!

Strangely, this seems at odds to the values of most of their Western adherents who are sucked in and fool themselves by the false impressions of "Yoga", "spirituality" and exotic orientalism.

You weren't around in the old days when they struggled with the unruly, hippier type elements who joined them. Now, as they dive wholeheartedly into their corporate ass kissing gig (consultants to the corporations), their agenda is even more clear.

However, I think where we irritate people like you is where we challenge or endanger the social value of having a Brahma Kumari background. How many ex- or demi-BKs we see these days *HIDING* their BK past in order to proceed in life. Brahma Kumarism is just not that cool ... having surrendered one's life to an conscienceless 'End of the World; cult run by, uneducated old ladies who believe dinosaurs existed 2,500 years ago just does not look good on the curriculum vitae, does it?
come to heel

to stop behaving in a way that annoys someone in authority and to start obeying their orders.
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