PBKs and this forum

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ex-l

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PBKs and this forum

Post30 Jan 2013

Following on from Notice to BKs, I have a proposal.

When this forum started, we sincerely hoped that all parties effected by the Brahma Kumaris could come together and discuss matters in a logical, adult manner in order to resolve issues. The forum and website was designed to do so and be a independent, objective resource for all. For various reasons, it soon became obvious that was impossible and the evidence we uncovered about the truth of the BKWSU was just too convincingly negative about them.
button slammer wrote:In the past some PBKs were instrumental in giving evidence against the BKs who were attempting to close this site.

Personally, I was not involved with the legal defence of this website against Dr Hansa Raval of the BKWSU's irrational and dishonest attack upon us. I stepped out of it until the very end. I cannot say how much assistance certain individuals gave or gave not, nor how useful it was, but I can say it would have been no more than a few emails from a couple of individuals such as Arjun (who I have never spoken badly of), and not the AIVV officially. Arjun has excellent dharna despite his beliefs, and more than anyone I've always defended the PBKs right to their religion and criticise the BKs over their treatment.

When the decision was made to split this forum ... due to the crazy conflicts between the PBKs and the Vishnu Party and the constant 'tub thumping' of certain PBKs ... none of PBKs were willing to come and take responsibility to do any work supporting their own BK/PBK forum. Basically, as far as I know, only two PBKs really did any work/giving beforehand; Arjun and Aimée. As far as I am concerned, the rest of the PBKs just expected a free platform to promote their beliefs and be given to them for nothing.

PBKs are ex-BKs ... but like those ex-BKs who were still stuck in the mindset and looking for a virtual BKWSU to discuss The Knowledge™. They don't want to give up the beliefs and move on, they are still struggling to make sense of it.

The insane conflict between the PBKs (Shankar Party) and the Vishnu Party, of which it has to be said the PBKs were the victims but that it was PBK leader Veerendra Dev Dixit's creation for encouraging their leader in the first place, was destroying the atmosphere here to no good effect whatsoever ... except to prove how mad the whole BK/PBK/Vishnu world was.

When we did split the forum, the only person to willing to forward to do something and pay out of his own pocket was Shivsena. He was given a complete copy of the forum and full assistance in setting an alternative forum up. The hardest part of starting a forum is building up enough 'critical mass' to encourage others to join and contribute.

If orthodox PBKs want a complete copy of all the data here to start their own, they can have one as well if they are willing to do the work.

Since that time, the BKs have now started up their own forum up giving two other forums for individuals who want to discuss The Knowledge™ from the point of view of a believer.

I am all for giving people the chance to see the light and against "banning people" but my proposal is the same limitations should be applied to PBKs as BKs. That is, if PBK members want to stick around they should be required to prove some kind of commitment to the website's purposes, i.e. giving not just taking.

But if they are 100% committed to their religion, don't want to change or offer anything, and are just here to ... I don't know what then I just don't see the point any more. This is not the right place for them. This place should be for people who have made the decision to want out, or to stop people getting sucked in.

Any thoughts?
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maria

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Re: PBKs and this forum

Post30 Jan 2013

my proposal is the same limitations should be applied to PBKs as BKs. That is, if PBK members want to stick around they should be required to prove some kind of commitment to the website's purposes, i.e. giving not just taking.

But if they are 100% committed to their religion, don't want to change or offer anything, and are just here to ... I don't know what then I just don't see the point any more. This is not the right place for them. This place should be for people who have made the decision to want out, or to stop people getting sucked in.

I completely agree.
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dany

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Re: PBKs and this forum

Post31 Jan 2013

Non-conformity with the goals and aims of this site (wherever it comes from), may be dealt with ... decisively.
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howiemac

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Re: PBKs and this forum

Post31 Jan 2013

Yes - same rules should apply to PBKs as BKs. They have their own sites.
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ex-l

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Re: PBKs and this forum

Post31 Jan 2013

I am happy to accept all such individuals, BKs and PBKs, if they come to honestly ask questions, e.g. "this is what I have been told, is it true" and, as Arjun did when he was here ... to give correction as to what the PBK point of view is when required. But not when they start to argue against the truth we have uncovered just because they have never come across it before.

I'd be happy to have Arjun back here to fairly represent what PBKism says. Roy and Bottomslapper have never been excluded from discussions. I am happy to hear their experiences but not so happy when it goes off into pointless theory.

We're still, basically, the only independent source of information about the BKWSU and have a far higher accuracy or objectivity rate than anywhere else ... and I don't see that changing. Arjun was good in that way. He never proselyted and only ever offered what was asked. It's just when ...
    a) They start flooding the forum with propaganda, or trying to undermine the foundations of it
    b) They import their ridiculous internecine conflicts
That it starts to bugs me.

There are 1,000s of fanatical BKs/PBKs followers and supporters and only a handful of individuals who have been through the machine, come out the other end of it intact and are prepared to come back and speak out about it. It would be the easiest thing in the world for the fanatics to drown out this forum with their voices.

For me, the only tool the BKs/PBKs have in the 'Evolution/Big Bang versus BK Creationism' topic is, again, to try and undermine the foundations by seeding doubts. There is no positive, supportive evidence nor concrete explanation for the idea of an identical 5,000 year Cycle ... so all they can do is attempt to create doubt and confusion and stir things up. Leaning on crazy American Christians is just one step too far.

That appears to be part of the BK model, the 'creating conflict where ever they go' others complain about.

Humans have a tendency to take sides in conflicts. I actually think they rarely take sides because of 'right and wrong', I think they take sides by deciding which side they think is more likely to satisfy their own self-interests or looks more powerful. Hence, the PBKs might well be striving to be more true to the teachings, and digging out the truth of them, but BKs will side with the BKWSU because it looks richer and more powerful.

And then we come along like ragged peasants mocking and critising their royal family and gurus. We have no power and nothing to offer them (... except their freedom). It seems even the Western 'Corporate BKs' are upset with us because our criticisms spoil their CVs and, perhaps, threaten their business.

Personally, I don't think it is very "Brahmin" to become crazy just because someone calls Dadi Janki an old fartbag, or to get offended by non-BKs making a fool of some of their ridiculousnesses. I think it a lower middle class Hindu thing to be outraged by it.

If you don't want to be portrayed as corrupt, foolish, indulgent etc it's easy ... just cut out those things that give critics good foundations for their criticisms.

In such situation, the 'impure us' are actually the ones who are occupying the spiritual high ground.

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