Notice to BKs

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ex-l

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post03 Feb 2013

angel_in_disguise wrote:Please, make it clear, which one of the 3 is the actual aim of the site? Note that only one of them must be the right answer, unless you are hiding your true intentions ... Please be clear, which one? 1, 2 or 3?

No one get to determine how we think or simplify down to their terms. Nothing is as simple as the BKWSU likes to portray matters. Everyone has their own reason to be here. It could be as many or a few reasons as anyone wanted.
I am new to the site, I think I don't understand 100% what's your aim with the site, could you make it clearer?

To broaden your mind and educate you.

This forum has changed over the years but, at present, it is heading back to where it started ... which is a place for ex-BKs to get together and support each other and non-BKs as best we can.

The "community" and activity started out in another discussion forum for ex-BKs that was apparently threatened by the BKWSO in order to close down. We stepped in and, in the first place, aimed to expand it to become a forum where all parties affected by the Brahma Kumarism could come together to resolve problems, BK, PBKs, ex-BK and non-BKs (friends and families of BKs).

In addition to the discussion element, we set out to research and collate as much original information about Brahma Kumarism, e.g. Murlis, posters, financial data, manuals etc, and present it in a manner so that any non-BK, or newcomer to the BKWSU could learn as much about the Brahma Kumaris as quickly as possible without the interference of the the Brahma Kumari leadership, being brainwashed or having to subject themselves to the Brahma Kumari leadership.

It started out fairly benign and innocent, just a place for ex-BKs to hangout and share experiences, but very quickly we uncovered a number of very serious issues which the Brahma Kumari leadership had kept covered up ... and then BK Dr Mrs Hansa Raval and the BKWSU tried to shut us down and hurt us using legal action (which they lost).

Soon after that, we discovered even more condemning revelations, that the BKWSU had extensively falsified their history and the develop of their philosophy, and the conflicts between various splinter groups became too much, so the forum was split into this one for ex-BKs and another one for BKs, PBKs and other "believers".
You want to destroy BKWSU ... You want to change BKWSU?

The BKWSU is just part of life. In life there is ignorance, corruption, manipulation and abuse. Let's destroy them ... Everyone has to decide which side they take and take a stand against such issues wherever they lie. If you don't take a stand against them ... you are agreeing with them and support them as strategies.
    I find it interesting that the BKWSU translates "being exposed" with "being destroyed".
Perhaps that is true ... but, personally, I tend to draw the line at defending non-BKs from BK deception and encouraging BKs to stand up for themselves.
You want to create a new splinter group using the BKWSU philosophy?

God, forbid ... not in 5,000 years or 14 Billion.
Patzcuaro wrote:It could be done briefly and become an interesting sintex exercise.

"Sintex"? A syntax exercise? I am not sure what that is Patzcuaro but allow me to be 'straight up' with you.

As long as your next post starts with, "Look, I admit the Brahma Kumaris are an End of the World cult but ..." I am happy to read any serious appraisal of them, including positive aspects.

What I would resist is any more obvious 'BK whitewashing'. We are not outsiders nor dumb neophytes

I'll continuing being honest ... for whatever reasons you have not explained to us, you have chosen to take an 'apologetic' position towards the BKWSU, and even support the cover up of their core motivations. It is your right to do so ... but please show our insights and experience a little respect as well.

All this "seeing the positive" and "syntax exercising" sounds like a Brahma Kumari 'Appreciative Inquiry-type" service device ... directing our attention where you and they would want it.

You see, my bottomline is this ... I don't think a cult who believe 7 billion people must die in order that they rule Heaven on Earth has any positive to offer. I think the "positivity" the Western BKs are desperate to invent, is a cover up ... a facade ... a deception. Any good Westerner BKs have invented to make them look better is only being taken by the BK inner circle and used to that older more fundamentalist aim.
ex.Brahma wrote:I think the role of this site resembles the role of an "EXORCIST", as it strives to expel the evil BK spirit from the inhibited souls, and heal them from its influence ... It is also an "eye opener" for those who have not been sucked in, so they become aware where they are heading ..! Reforming BKWSU...??!! How could an ideology based on mere myth and fiction be reformed or corrected .. ?? It will be like trying to reinforce a shaky upper structure built on loose soil ..??

That made me smile ... thanks for sticking around and keep it all down to earth.
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angel_in_disguise

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post03 Feb 2013

OK, I understand, but this website talks about "people interested in reforming BKWSU". That is a lie. You don't want to reform BKWSU, you want to wipe it out from the face of the earth ... So at least don't lie ... Be honest to your true aim, instead of creating a false make-up discourse. This website is just a place where anonymous people behind masks and the security of internet, can at least for one moment of their lives, feel they are something ... Play the role of Robespierre and dream of cutting down the heads of the Dadis and everyone who respects them ... You are not honest in revealing your aims, you walk to the sides like a crab, only waiting the time to pinch your enemy indirectly ... Behind the carapace of anonymity and hiding in some hole ... It's pitiful ...
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Patzcuaro

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post03 Feb 2013

angel_in_disguise wrote:
    1- You want to destroy BKWSU?

    2- You want to change BKWSU? (and that would be for the best, otherwise it goes into number 1)

    3- You want to create a new splinter group using the BKWSU philosophy?
Please, make it clear, which one of the 3 is the actual aim of the site? Note that only one of them must be the right answer, unless you are hiding your true intentions ... Please be clear, which one? 1, 2 or 3?

Be welcomed, the level of the debate is going higher every day, but I am afraid to tell you that there is another option other than the 3 you proposed. I'll call it Option 4: This forum is a kind of cathartic pot for people with bad experiences on BK not always in a very constructive sense.

As ex-brahma just mentioned, it is something like an exorcism.

But as I told you, "the bar has been raised" with posts from people with positive experiences on BK, even from outside Gyan, and both sides are getting something back. I, personally, have learnt a lot on my no more than two months in the forum. And even I won't ever be able to pay back what Madhuban gave me, I have been very critical on how knowledge has been "translated" to Western countries and have made suggestions to change this protocols.

Well, now tell us something about your experience and in which way it has transformed your path.
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ex.brahma

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post03 Feb 2013

patzcuaro

Exorcism, is a religious practice of evicting demons or other spiritual entities (the satanics) from a person.

I cannot really think of a demon, which is more evil and destructive than the Brahma Kumaris ideology and teachings ..!!
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Patzcuaro

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post03 Feb 2013

ex.Brahma wrote:Exorcism, is a religious practice of evicting demons or other spiritual entities (the satanics) from a person.

I can not really think of a demon, which is more evil and destructive than the Brahma Kumaris ideology and teachings ..!!

I fully agree with you, there is no worst demon to be evicted from a person than anger, and it is evident that this forum is helping some people to actually do it, which is good, but I do hope it is not only that because there is a lot of expertise on BK in this space that could be used to build something, not to destroy.

Having said this, I have to remind that I am not a BK and that I am not in any contact with them and not planning to do so.

I am just someone that was inside and deep enough in BK to contribute from a very personal point of view but always trying to be respectful and honest, bringing to the table the good and the bad things about it.
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ex-l

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post04 Feb 2013

Patzcuaro wrote:I fully agree with you, there is no worst demon to be evicted from a person than anger ...

No, Patzcuaro, you completely twisted or inverted ex.Brahma's words or meaning to a BK point of view turning it on us (allegedly being "possessed with anger) and away from any critique of the BKWSU.

ex-brahma was clearly writing about the "evil spirits" of the BKWSU, e.g. its deception, desire for world domination, its use of Destruction, and so on.

It's also become clear that by "raising the bar" ... which means "To raise standards or expectations, especially by creating something to a higher standard" ... what you mean is 'the publishing of pro-BKWSU sentiments'.

You are *so* like a BK ... it's necessary to translate everything you say into plain English in order to see its true meaning.
angel_in_disguise wrote:OK, I understand, but this website talks about "people interested in reforming BKWSU". That is a lie. You don't want to reform BKWSU, you want to wipe it out from the face of the earth ...

Perhaps you ought to go and ask the leaders and inner circle of the Western BKWSU rather than depend on your own manmat (opinions) ... and if you do so, you will discover that they will admit we have provoked them to have to make positives changes. There is documentation of this on the website.

As for the "anonymity", we have also covered this.
    Facts are facts. It does not matter who said them or how.

    Discuss the message, don't just try and attack the messengers. Are the facts true or false?
This is another yukti (mental device) the Brahma Kumaris try and use against our exposé of them ... It would make no difference who said what has been said or the facts which have been exposed about the Brahma Kumaris. Those facts at least 99.9% true, and only the tip of the iceberg about them. We only know a fraction of bad things that go in inside the BKWSU.

No one is being "anonymous" here any more than you are ... it's just what people do when they join an internet discussion forum. They use a short nickname to make signing on quicker and easier.
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ex-l

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post04 Feb 2013

Patzcuaro wrote:I won't ever be able to pay back what Madhuban gave me, I have been very critical on how knowledge has been "translated" to Western countries and have made suggestions to change this protocols.

Well, now tell us something about your experience and in which way it has transformed your path.

No, what you are trying to do here is some kind of BK exercise which is posed as "seeing the positive" but it really just defending the BKWSU or confirming positive values of it.

It reminds me of some BK center-in-charge sitting on the guddhi after meditation asking the class to "give their experience" of what they felt during meditation, or one of their New Agey "service yuktis".

You really don't seem to get that there is no question of "translating" The Knowledge™. The BK Knowledge is The Knowledge™ ... it is "God given (allegedly) and cannot be changed. It is the core of their religion, the Alpha and Omega of the Brahma Kumaris.

What you are proposing is not "translation" it is a further covering up or re-marketing of Brahma Kumarism ... the initiation of individuals into a relationship with their spirit guide "gods" and enculting them within the cult, without those individuals being told what is really actually on.

It is by definition ... highly unethical, and deceptive.


BTW, are you still running your own 'alternative' BK center and initiating individuals into BK practises?

The point you are making is entirely true, The Knowledge™ and cultic aspects of the BKWSU puts most rational Westerners off, but to try and hide the truth about the BKWSU is only to the BKWSU's interest or those that make a business ... either financially or egotistically ... off the BKWSU.

Up above, I wrote ...
ex-l wrote:As long as your next post starts with, "Look, I admit the Brahma Kumaris are an End of the World cult but ..." I am happy to read any serious appraisal of them, including positive aspects.

I was being serious. Unless you can start by admitting in public what the BKWSU really is ... there is really nothing more for you to say.

I cannot work out whether you are just in denial of this ... for example, you have imagined in your mind that actually Brahma Kumarism is something else from what the Brahma Kumaris think it is ... or you know damned well what the Brahma Kumaris are about and you just want to hide it even more.

You see, we have to confirm that you are willing to accept the standards of honesty required for this forum ... that the BK spirits have been fully exorcised out of you ... or you actually want them to be exorcised from out of you.

I can see nor think of any "anger" on this forum, except perhaps when the Vishnu Party came on board to attack the PBKs.
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ex.brahma

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post04 Feb 2013

patzcuaro

I fully agree with what ex-l wrote. Furthermore, on one hand you say that you are not a BK, and you do not have any contact with them, nor intend to do so in the future. Yet, on the other hand you give us the impression that it is a Catholic marriage between you and them, where no divorce is allowed ...!!
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Mr Green

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post04 Feb 2013

anger is an energy just like everything, best to accept it than pretend your free or becoming free of it
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howiemac

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post05 Feb 2013

I think there is a justification for "translating" BK teachings for a Western audience. If you remove all the Hindu stuff, and the "carrot and stick" authoritarian stuff, and fix the dodgy English translations, then you can get worthwhile spiritual teachings ( here is an example ). However, such "translations" should not be promoted as "BK", as they in no way reflect the reality of the BKWSU.

Misrepresentation and hypocrisy have no place in spirituality. A true "Spiritual University" would never resort to such gross tricks.
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ex-l

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post05 Feb 2013

howiemac wrote:Misrepresentation and hypocrisy have no place in spirituality. A true "Spiritual University" would never resort to such gross tricks.

I have to agree with the latter. I cannot understand how all the "good parishioners" of the BKWSU can sit there comfortable knowing what is going on ... except that if they were in any other part of life, they would exhibit the same sort of middle class hypocrisies.

As to the first part, I will never be comfortable with it until we are really sure what 'spirit', meme or technique we are dealing with.

If BKism is, in essence, the total devotion or enslavement of the mind to their god, I'd want to know more about their god especially as we've seen the conduct of his most trusted managers and devotees. I can agree that devoting one's mind to their god can make give some remarkable sensations ... I am just not sure of where one, and humanity, is being led afterwards whilst one is high ... or feeling indebted or empowered.

Patzcuaro is basically say, don't look at all that stuff, don't tell anyone about it until they are fully enculted, until the hook is deep in their mouth ... and that is, basically, the marketing strategy of the BKWSU in the middle class West it is targeting. He's just say they should do even more of it. Encult people without them knowing what they are being enculted into. I am completely against that and pro- total transparency and disclosure. People show be told in *entirety* what the BKs are about *before* they are enculted.

I also think his aim is utterly futile because as a male and as non-Indian he has an snowball's chance in hell of reforming the BKWSU (...and less of incorporating our support!).

What I would like to ask Patzcuaro is
    a) Whether as a potentially value asset to the BKs ... a privileged, intelligent, skilled Westerner with property and connections ... does he realises that they were just flattering him along to get as much as they could out of him (like so many before him)?
    b) What made him leave ... what the final straw was? Was it something he disagreed with so strongly, or was his just not strong enough to follow all the principles and wanted a more comfortable life?
If it the second case, then I think its dangerous to dabble selling BKism under another guise because the disciplines and structure are there for some reason presumably.

snowballs-chance-in-hell.jpg
One has even less chance of success than a snowball in hell than trying to reform the BKWSU
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howiemac

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post05 Feb 2013

ex-l wrote:Patzcuaro is basically say(ing), don't look at all that stuff, don't tell anyone about it until they are fully enculted, until the hook is deep in their mouth ... and that is, basically, the marketing strategy of the BKWSU in the middle class West it is targeting. He's just say(ing) they should do even more of it. Encult people without them knowing what they are being enculted into. I am completely against that and pro- total transparency and disclosure. People show be told in *entirety* what the BKs are about *before* they are enculted.

I would prefer that people were not "enculted" at all! For so long as the vast majority of the human race are behaving like a flock of sheep, and blindly going wherever the sheepdogs scare them into going, then the human race is simply helping to create (or sustain) hell on Earth.

Whether people are indoctrinated into being sheep in early childhood (as most are), or are later mesmerised or brainwashed by a cult into being sheep, the end result is the same: they do what some power-tripping leader tells them to do, and the human race as a whole behaves like the mythically suicidal lemmings. Through this we are raping and destroying this green Earth.

I agree that, at least, they should be given the chance of saying "no", by being given honest information by the cult, rather than lies and trickery to get them hooked. But then it wouldn't be a cult, would it?
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howiemac

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post06 Feb 2013

(from Reality Sandwich)
Larry Malerba wrote:Black and white thinking is inherent in all forms of fundamentalist belief. This type of single-minded devotion to one's beliefs, whether they be religious, scientific, or militaristic, is the source of most human strife and conflict. If we are to heal ourselves as a culture, this pervasive imbalance must be rectified.

Says it all.
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ex-l

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post08 Feb 2013

No direct and relevant answers from Patzcuaro then? Have they disappeared off into silence?
howiemac wrote:I would prefer that people were not "enculted" at all! For so long as the vast majority of the human race are behaving like a flock of sheep, and blindly going wherever the sheepdogs scare them into going, then the human race is simply helping to create (or sustain) hell on Earth.

Arguably, a large proportion of human beings have by now been bred to be enculted, and a small proportion have become good at enculting and exploiting those who are enculted.

Those who question the latter have, historically, tended to be killed off.

The Brahma Kumaris attract both kinds. The 'Brahma Kumari leadership' are of the latter kind. However, every now and again, life appears to throws up a few mutations who buck these trends.

Again "arguably", that small elite generally appears to inherit their positions and skills from their families. However, every now and again, individuals outside of the elite appear to come along and work out what is going on and desire to step up into their position. This to me is what the Brahma Kumaris are primarily about. They appear to desperately want to become the elite and enjoy most of the benefits of doing so.

Where do we fit within all that? We who see who they are and could have joined them ... could have climbed the ranks with them if we had just kept our heads down and mouths shut. We who have renounced becoming shepherds or their sheepdogs.
Albert Einstein wrote: The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.
Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when an individual does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence.

- Albert Einstein
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dany

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Re: Notice to BKs

Post08 Feb 2013

For centuries, Westerners have been fascinated by The Orient including India, not as a major source of spices, but as what they think is a mysterious destination, where they may find answers to their spiritual questions.

During Mount Abu seasons, they could be found in substantial numbers, not as BK followers but as curious Westerners hoping to discover new dimensions in spirituality. They can easily be distinguished from their colourful outfits, (instead of BK standard white outfit).

They do not hide their astonishment when they discover that even in the 21st century humans such as Lekhraj Kirpalani are still being worshipped as Gods, with full wall to wall illuminated portrait of him in a specially dedicated hall in Mount Abu, with BKs in a worshipping posture in front of it.

"Gulzar show"," Traffic light" (freeze of action) and other silly aspects of BK rituals are always subjects of fun and jokes.

So when a Westerner spends some time in Madhuban and then walks out of BK,"like quitting Tennis or Japanese food lessons", he definitely was not enculted, and only enjoyed the spicy atmosphere and food there.

From what we read about ex-BKs experiences in this forum, even after years of quitting the cult, they still suffer from its ... aftermath ...!!
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