12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe: most important world monument?

Scientific challenges to the beliefs promoted by the Brahma Kumaris so called "World Spiritual University"
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ex-l

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12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe: most important world monument?

Post10 Feb 2013

Göbekli Tepe is a Neolithic site on the Turkish-Syrian border which is considered to be "one of the most important monuments in the world". It has been dated back to 10,000 years before Christ - or 12,000 years ago - making it more than 7,000 years older than the British Stonehenge and more than 9,000 years older than the temple of Somnath in India.

Unless you are a BK adherent ... in which case it is no more than 2,500 years old, existed at the same time as the Dinosaurs and is younger than Somnath because Somnath was the first temple (... damn, those where a business few years after the end of the 2,500 years of Heaven on Earth which the BKs ruled!). There is a problem with this hypothesis however. Although the construction has many animals carved on it, and 100,000 bones of edible wild animals scattered around it proving it could exist in the BKs' vegetarian heaven, there are no dinosaurs on it, no symbols of Shiva, and no Brahma Kumari centers nearby (... which suggests the area could not be "an island in the BKs' Gold or Silver Age" as they believe any ancient site outside of India must be).*

Funnily enough, as my education ended when I entered the Brahma Kumaris' so-called World Spiritual "University" and my brain started to atrophy, I'd never actually heard of it before today and I am sure neither has Dadi Janki or Lekhraj Kirpalani ... but Göbekli Tepe is a 25 acre arrangement of perhaps as many as 20 stone circles ranging from 30 to 100 feet in diameter and the oldest man-made burial site or place of worship yet discovered. Not only was it built by a team of 100s of individuals long before it is believe writing was invented, it was also later deliberately buried with as much as 300 to 500 cubic meters of soil per circle at a later date.

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* According to Brahma Kumari theory, all the continents in the world are about to sink below the oceans for 2,500 years in a cataclysmic event they call "Destruction" ... except for India and where Brahma Kumari mediation centers are currently positioned.

India, they claim, will be remodelled as 'Heaven on Earth' and the sites of BK centers will become islands to which the reincarnated BKs will fly at high speed in nuclear powered, thought controlled flying machines (... an actual BK belief!). Only in another 2,500 years will all the other continents arise again, hence all of evidence pre-history - including the dinosaur period - must exist after 500 BC only.
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Re: 12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe: most important world monum

Post30 May 2014

Once again the problem you've got is this all relies on the dating being correct, which is simply impossible to verify if you want to be objectively honest ...

What is interesting is the clear statement in the 1930/40 that flying machines connected to and directed by the mind will be being used within a generation for the future society of mankind ... That was a pretty impressive prediction being intellectually honest ...
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Re: 12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe: most important world monum

Post30 May 2014

The stories of vimanas in Hinduism date back to at least the 11th-century, perhaps even 1,000s of years depending on who you believe. They were nothing new.

Even in Lekhraj Kirpalani's lifetime, the Vaimanika Shastra was published.

Specifically, there is nothing I have seen that suggests the BKs idea of them arose in the 1930s or 40s, just as, say, there was no mention of nuclear war in their WWII Destruction predictions ... until after it happened in the real world.

They appear to be much later in their development.
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Re: 12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe: most important world monum

Post30 May 2014

As we are being technically accurate, yes the notion of vimanas is mentioned in Indian scripture but as an historical event, So credit where credit is due it has been successfully claimed throughout Brahma's sharing's certainly from 1950/60 that they will be re-invented within the next generation and they have been ... This is a significant prediction and deserves recognition for what it is ...
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Re: 12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe: most important world monum

Post31 May 2014

ichewgum states that scientifically cross-validated methods of dating actual objects, or events that have actually happened, are ”impossible" to verify, but thinks Indian scriptures are historical documents, thinks predictions of flying machines ”deserve recognition" before they eventuate (even though mankind has imagined many kinds of flying over millenia).

Have you researched how radio-carbon dating was developed and cross checked and the various other methods of dating that also exist and which correlate?

The difference between scientific belief and superficial religious belief: What science believes changes as the evidence changes, whereas ill-considered religious belief superficially uses whatever suits without necessarily understanding its implications, cherry-picking it or ignoring it completely.
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Re: 12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe: most important world monum

Post31 May 2014

PP

I expect and encourage opinions, but to not acknowledge that what was stated is factually correct is simply being disingenuous ...
    1) There is no scientific method available to mankind regards dating the unobserved past that is not standing upon unverifiable Assumptions (like it or not that is the situation) If this has changed please update me !
    2) Explain how any historical written word whether it be scripture or not cannot be referred to, as an historical document ?
    3) We are not just dealing with the claim for some imagined invention but with the statement that they are going to emerge within a generation, personally I am not as frugal with my appreciation of such rare events as you obviously are..
    4) Yes
    5) Not sure what this last paragraph has to do with anything but thanks for the info ...
Science is great and all that but let's not get carried away with the present In vogue and fashionable attitude of it's the only way to understand this experience labelled life !
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Re: 12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe: most important world monum

Post31 May 2014

How about all his failed predictions, wrong calculations of the population of the earth, lack of general religious knowledge from not knowing about Jainism, Judaism etc to being completely unaware of, say, Chinese and Eqyptian history? As with the followers of Nostradamus, adherents tend to show bias and be a little selective in what they choose to believe he said. With Lekhraj Kirpalani, we don't know what he said and what e.g. Jagdish Chander might have added in later.

Are you at all qualified to make scientific claims Chewgum? If so, what are your qualifications?
ichewgum wrote:Brahma's sharing's certainly from 1950/60 that they will be re-invented within the next generation and they have been ... This is a significant prediction and deserves recognition for what it is ...

The problem is, ichewgum, at the point of understanding the BKs that we've reached now ... you cannot take anything they as "true" without additional supporting evidence.

Put simply, you have no idea of Lekhraj Kirpalani thought of what, when. All you have been spun by his old lover girls are a load of half-baked truths, exaggerations, cover ups and outright lies.

Show me evidence of when Lekhraj Kirpalani first said what.

We old timers remember what the paintings the BKs made of these flying machines, golden jewel encrusted swans with no means of propulsion, no fuel, no aerodynamics, no methods of steering etc etc etc. And at some point, the BKs started claiming a child could fly them as many times more than supersonic speeds by the power of their minds.

I would argue that they are just copies of illustrations and ideas already existent in Hinduism and I'll bet you I can find the originals quickly. I won't bother because the ideas of God Lekhraj Kirpalani designs are so ridiculously impossible as to make it not worthwhile.

How do the BKs get over that? I've heard BK Brothers speculation that the laws of nature and physics will be different in the Golden Age! Anything is possible with a wave of the magic wand.

OK, Destruction was meant to be in 1986 (actually, WWII, 1950, 1976 too). 50 years for Creation, 50 years for Destruction ... we are 28 years into the period of Creation of the Golden Age, where are your prototypes? Where are your safe micro nuclear power generators? Where are you anti-gravity packs? Where are your computers used for navigation?

Etc etc etc ...

Or, don't tell it, it does matter because Baba will wave his magic wand and it will all just happen! "The Scientists souls will serve the BKs" and then disappear for them to enjoy their Golden Age. What ... the Advance Party have establish secret laboratories high up in the Himalayas funded by the secret wealth of Nepalese royal or something?!?

It's a joke. It's all big prank. The BKs have no practical explanations for their predictions and theories.
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Re: 12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe: most important world monum

Post01 Jun 2014

1) There is no scientific method available to mankind regards dating the unobserved past that is not standing upon unverifiable Assumptions

So you have thoroughly examined the theory, processes and practice of elementary particle physics and organic chemistry and find it flawed? A Nobel prize awaits you.
2) Explain how any historical written word whether it be scripture or not cannot be referred to, as an historical document ?
Anything written in the past is a "historical document” . That does not mean it documents history,
eg an original handwritten paper with a Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale is indeed a historical document, but the story written by Andersen is a fairy tale. So too ...

As for #3: How many generations?

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