Leaving the BKs

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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kann123

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Leaving the BKs

Post05 Sep 2014

Our whole family is BKs for 20 years.

But I don't like it. I live with my Father. He is a strong BK. So how can I leave it? He is not allowing me to leave it.

Can anyone help me please?
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ex-l

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post05 Sep 2014

If you family has been BKs for 20 years, am I correct in saying you are more than 21 years old?

If so, you are an adults and your rights are protected by law.

I appreciate that what you are speaking about are familial or paternal pressures but it is good to remember that you are a human being and have human rights of your own. If you have grown up in a world that is completely defined by the BKs and a dominating Father, perhaps you don't have a strong personal identity and an idea of a "boundary" between who and what you are, and who they want you to do.

First and foremost, there is nothing within BKism to allow your Father to do so. It goes against BKism because BKism is either a matter of personal choice, or destiny. If it is not your choice or destiny, then he cannot force you. Fullstop.

Perhaps one way would be to have the courage to ask the centre-in-charge the question, in front of your Father. This will take courage, I accept, but it should also silence your Father. If you ask the centre-in-charge, does your Father have the right to force you, or is it correct according to Shrimat then the accurate answer is no. If the centre-in-charge admits that is Shrimat, then your Father must remain silent about your choice.

Would that work?

I also appreciate it is very easy for us to sit here and make a suggest that would throw your home into turmoil. It is amazing how nasty and difficult BKs can become for all their "positive thinking" and "purity". It is also very difficult for us to give advice without knowing more about your circumstances. But I can re-assure you that your Father has no right to be doing what he is doing.

Can you go and live elsewhere? With other family members or on your own? Or do you want to stay at home.

If you have grown up as a child within a BK family, it is likely that you have been manipulated in many way and have not developed a healthy self-esteem or world view.

How was your experience and what makes you feel so strongly that BKism is not for you?

Thank you for posting.
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kann123

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post06 Sep 2014

Dear ex-I,

Thank you for your quick and lengthy reply. It mean how much you cares me.

Anyway let me tell some more.

My ambition on visiting this site is to know why you talk against BKs, where I believe as the greatest institute on the planet. But after referring website materials I came to know that this is the place where I can open my heart.

Yes, as you said, I am mid 30's in age. One of my sibling is surrendered in a BK center. And some of them got married after a big turmoil and without Father's permission and is ex-BK. One of them got married to an ex-BK as well.

I found somewhere, BK is for those who have lost hope and for who has depressed minds, or something like that, kind of a meaning. I think it suits for my Father. Doctors advised to him go under medical treatments for severe depression, but he is not listen to them, Instead he is pressurizing us.

I don't want to give his trouble to any one or left him alone. I believe it is my responsibility to look after him and my siblings. It may my destiny. I am afraid to do that. I consider it as a great sin.

I left my job because it gave me so much sorrow. Because my friends were not agreed with me. Now I am jobless and depend on my Father.
ex-l wrote:How was your experience and what makes you feel so strongly that BKism is not for you?

Basically, the changing nature of the philosophy makes me questionable.
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ex-l

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post06 Sep 2014

Yes, all of us started as BK followers and some even spoke well of the BKWSU after we left. I used to.

Unfortunately, then we started to discover all of the stupid, nasty or corrupt things going on - the lying and the history revision - and our attitude started to change. Especially the interferences in people's relationships and the breaking apart of families. So much unhappiness.

Also, becoming older outside of the BKWSU teaches more about life and you start to look at the Brahma Kumaris different and in a more mature manner.

I think it is fair to say they make you stupid and treat you like children inside. People become addicted to them.

In your case, I think I would 'play the BK system' and start by going to speak to the BK center-in-charge about your Father's mental illness. Get them to tell him to go. Strictly speaking, people with mental illness should not go to the BKs or do their meditation.

You can also ask if he has the right to pressurize you. The answer is clearly no. Even in the Murli it says, if someone want to leave, they can, there is nothing Baba can do. They can even go and get married ... and we have discovered many BKs have recently.

Of course, many BKs leave once they see the truth of the religion and understand it cannot be god and the leaders are just living off the religion as a business.

Your Father is not allowed to be angry. It is not Avyakt or divine to force, bully and coerce others, you can remind him of that. It seems you need to learn a little bit of self-assertiveness.

When did your Father (mother also?) first become a BK? How old were you?

Unfortunately, we have found that children growing up in the BK world sometimes do not develop fully and develop their own problems due to the pressures and beliefs, e.g. additional demands on them children should not have, parental detachment, pointless and spoilt careers and education due to belief in Destruction.

We should talk a little about that but also your future. Do you have a plan or a career?

Do you plan to marry?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post06 Sep 2014

HI Kann,

I don't want to interrupt the worthwhile conversation you are having with ex-l. I just want to say that this is not particularly about the BKs but something that happens in families in all parts of the world, where the religious parent expects the children to follow in that faith and to do it as the parents wish.

Inter-generational battles for independence are natural, but what is unnatural, or rather, unhealthy, is for a young man to submit rather than become an independent adult.

For us in the West, to become BKs we went against our parents’ religions - that ”rebelliousness” of youth was part of what made us get involved. We substituted Baba for our our real fathers,other BKs for our real Brothers and Sisters. And that is why many feel they cannot leave, they have cut off those primal connections.

Especially for young men, BK culture brings infantilisation. The result can be depression. The one masculine activity your Father still expresses himself through is as ”head of the family”.

Your Father’s projecting of his wishes onto you keeps you where he wants you , I suspect, as a form of convincing himself that by surrendering his life, his independence, responsibilities and (unfortunately) those of his children (which he has no right to do) to ”god”, he is doing the right thing.

That some of your siblings have left BKs makes you more his project, of creating a son in his own image (i.e. it is a kind of ego confirmation, as all fathers do) but what is that image? A good Father encourages a son to stand on his own feet, take responsibility, establish his own career and household etc.

I suggest you spend some time talking to your siblings who have broken away and get moral and emotional support from them. Maybe also get some counselling to give direction and feedback from an objective, trained person.

This is not about BKs as such, it is about you gaining the self-confidence and ability to assert your autonomy, like any child raised under domineering religious parents, to make your own way in life. Although yoru Father may initially not want that, he would not want a son who withers in his shade either.

That you want to break away into independence is hindered by lack of financial independence and all of this leads a man into depression. First thing is get some financial security, a decent job, or see if your married Sister can help in some way to begin with.

At 31 years old, you are at a crucial age. You need at this time to leave childhood and adolescents behind you and establish a new pattern.

All the best to you.

Save Innocents

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post08 Sep 2014

kann123 wrote:I don't want to give his trouble to any one or left him alone. I believe it is my responsibility to look after him and my siblings. It may my destiny. I am afraid to do that. I consider it as a great sin.

Right. It is your responsibility & you must not run from it just because of these few misunderstanding & difficulties in adjustment of thoughts.
I left my job because it gave me so much sorrow. Because my friends were not agreed with me. Now I am jobless and depend on my Father.

Prepare yourself for a new job, you are not too old to get a job. Dependency on your Father is not very good for your future. Earn your living if possible, it will give you your right to exist independently to a great extent. At least you should try for a job as you have experience too which counts.

And when you get a new job, do not start spreading the BKism theory at workplace, people do not believe them because of their corrupt system. And those who never heard of BK Baba & all that crap never want to hear it. So, avoid it to get any other problem in adjustment at workplace.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post09 Sep 2014

SI, your post revealed a contradiction in Kann’s situation...

Kann, how is it you feel you have to look after your Father but you are dependant on him?
Who is looking after whom?

This is an entrapment game played by many old mothers too who do not want their children to leave them.

You are only able to look after someone else, to help them, when you are not in need of help yourself.

Believe me when I say that, in my own experience with my parents, that despite what they say, when you strike out independently and make your own way in the world successfully, and then continue to show them respect and you voluntarily choose to spend time with them (rather than because you are obligated to), they are more proud of you than if you stayed subservient under their patronage. Many parents fear being left alone and unloved in their old age. Reassuring them practically does not mean being their baby .

Save Innocents

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post09 Sep 2014

Yes, you are right PP. But it is not contradiction from my point of view.

Both Father & son are dependent on each other. Father needs to be looked & cared in his old age. Kann could be his only hope except that he wishes to proclaim his superiority on son egotistically. But it can be neglected as at last he is his Father. because money can not buy everything, so he needs family & Kann.

While on other hand, Kann is financially dependent on his Father. So, i just suggested Kann to free his financial dependence & earn for his own bread & butter. It will reduce dependency (financial one) on his Father. At least Kann do not need to follow everything his Father asks if he is not dependent financially on him.

Second part which i did not mention is the emotional or psychological dependence, which I think Kann expects from his Father & vice-versa. His Father may refuse any emotional or psychological need of Kann from outside as consequence of following BKism but from inside he will always need Kann. Without his support, it would almost leave him in a deplorable state. To the minimum extent, he needs someone over whom he can claim his superiority.

Affected BK

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post09 Sep 2014

I am interested to know what is the policy if one decides to leave the BK? Especially a surrender Sister, when she has devoted say, about 10-15 years living in the centre and arranged a good amount of money and property or some physical things like vehicle / furniture / fixtures, in the form of donation /seva. Can she take it with her for her future settlement?

I know 2 Brothers who have purchased vehicles on their own name while living in centre and later on when they separated and started living outside (still following BKism and doing regular class) they take those vehicles with them and using it independently. Who can ask them that if those vehicles are not purchased out of the seva accumulated from the adherents?

Is any ex-BK can tell us about such happenings in BK?
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ex-l

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post09 Sep 2014

As far as I know, there is no overall policy, and certain none that is adhered to.

The example I always give is the Western leader Sister Jayanti Kirpalani, Dadi Janki Kripalani's junior.

Her non-BK Father donated a property to the BKWSU in place of her dowry and it became a centre, but when his business had troubles, Sister Jayanti kicked all the Sisters out and the property was given back to the Father. And yet in other cases, in Russia, in India and elsewhere, where ex-BK have asked for properties they donated back, the BKs have kept them and even fought them in court to keep them.

They say, "they cannot give something back which was donated to the charity" ... unless it is to do with the Kirpalanis, it seems.

Every cases appears to be decided on the whim of the Sister or Senior Sister according to how useful the individuals are, or how much they gave. The same applies with individuals who really don't believe any more living in BK properties, just because they were BKs for a long time. Another example was with Madhuban and VIPs. BKs have to follow principles 6 months or 1 year before going ... VIPs get to go straight away even if they are not following purity. I know someone who has taken alcohol there.

I think there should be a clear, universal system but there is none. Some centre properties are just owned by private BKs and they seemingly do what they like. It's a very poor system ethically, but the "flexibility" of it makes it expand successfully.

After we started voicing our opinions here, the Western BKs started to respond by creating something called, approximately, "Global Operations" system but I know for a fact it was refused by BKWSU India. I'll find the proper name. I don't think much came of it.

Affected BK

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post02 Oct 2014

At the moment, I am struggling hard to pull myself out of the filth of guilt consciousness. It is very painful really. Being in the organization for years, the guilt is so deeply rooted in the mind and making life miserable. Life is appearing totally unworthy.

The valuable suggestion to get rid of the feeling will be highly appreciated.

Tanya

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post02 Oct 2014

Hello Affected BK,

It's never too late to start life afresh. Tell yourself repeatedly that BK life is not the 'be all and end all' of your existence. There's more to life ... genuine and good things like charity, professional growth, improving personal relationships ... basically, taking life as it comes and accepting and embracing whatever it brings.

Identify the reasons of the guilt consciousness you think is gripping you and face and eliminate those reasons. I know the BK religion induces a lot of fear in you like - "if you don't do this, you will suffer ..." If you don't do service, you will not get a high position in SatYuga ... not be loved by BapDada" etc etc ...

Try to come out of such fears and if you think that by not doing service you're missing out on something important in life, come out of the BK world and look around ... there's immense scope of service outside which is satisfying enough.

Wish you all the best.

clearofBK

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post02 Oct 2014

Good suggestion from Tanya.

Affected BK, I am one of those who had similar state of mind but have completely overcome this by keeping a positive outlook and keeping very busy at work and other interests including family. Ironically, it's the BK solution, be busy in service (read work or your interests etc ...) and your mind won't have time for feeling guilt. Soon you will overcome. All the best!
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ex-l

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post03 Oct 2014

Can you be more specific about what is going on Affected?

I think in my early ex-BK days, I slept a lot ... to catch up but also, in theory, to allow my sub-conscious mind time to process what was going on. It was great. "If it doubt (sad/confused/depressed/stressed), sleep it out", I used to say. Get sufficient rest and take time to re-adjust. It's the same as the breakdown of a bi relationship or something ... there is bound to be some re-adjustment which the mind them projects onto or re-interprets in the way it the way it has been taught.

You say guilt. What do you feel guilty of? It is just a sanskar you have adopted? Or is it a tendency you had from before that the BKs have exploited.

ClearofBK is quite right, "ironically" you can use BK yuktis or solutions ... but the fact is, they are not "BK" but just old fashioned common sense which the BKs have picked up and adopted. Another is talking to your own mind ... call it your "BK mind" or that part of personality the BKs' created ... explain to it what is going on, what decisions you have made, what you need to do and why, and then get on with it.

Is life totally unworthy? Some of it. Are the BKs in generally and BK leaders "totally unworthy"? In small matters BKs are probably slightly more trustworthy, in big matters ... absolutely, or rather they are consumed by their own agenda which is not in your own personal needs and interests. Depending on how much you surrender not to "God", not to their god spirit, but to their leaders it is ALL about their needs and interests. And, sadly, they are not trustworthy. Local centres-in-charge are probably sincere but just deluded and the leaders are now proven to be deeply deceptive and manipulative.

BKism, or the BK community, is a fairly comfortable bubble if you can and are willing to the prices but it is still 'just life' and life requires us to keep learning, keep striving, or drown. Drowning (giving up/falling back down) does not help, it just gives you more work to do later.

I think it is worth expanding your spiritual interests and reading other philosophical or "life" wisdoms to find other helpful advice. BKs don't have a monopoly on "life wisdom". I've found very simple, helpful world views from many other sources.

I don't know where you live, what your circumstance and culture is so it is a little hard to offer any specific suggestions is but there is still wonder and greatness in the world, and still plenty of satisfying things to get involved in and do whatever your inclination are.

On of the universal truths in Buddhism is, "everything changes", and it always does. At times life become really black ... you just hold on a little ... and then the next day a new dawn arrives. Try doing something completely different, break the taboos that bind you according to your own taste and see what happens. I'll pretty much guarantee you it will me nothing.

It's funny to look back now but I remember how even going out to eat "impure" restaurant food or some onion was such a big taboo thing! The BKs had almost successful dragged me into their Hyderabadi cloistered life and had me prisoner there to entertain them, as the young Om Mandli women, entertained Lekhraj Kirpalani.

Affected BK

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Re: Leaving the BKs

Post03 Oct 2014

Thanks all for your valued suggestions
ex-I wrote:You say guilt. What do you feel guilty of? It is just a sanskar you have adopted? Or is it a tendency you had from before that the BKs have exploited.

It's just a feeling ... but it kills. The unworthiness in life and not belonging to anyone ... It appears that I am left aloof. It seems that life is demanding many things, but I am not able to provide any. I find no way out and end up doing BK meditation and read this forum that’s all. When find myself free, it’s the guilty feeling.

Never mind, I will get through it. The divine is guiding me.

Thanks once again.
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