Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

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Pink Panther

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post26 Nov 2017

It was not uncommon in my time in the BKs for rich donors to financially support the residence and livelihood of a BK based on who they are, i.e. they would not necessarily have done it for just anyone, they were impressed by that person. They may not pay for everything but will let BKs use a property and make regular donations, i.e. the main living expenses are covered. Then the yugya may come in as a secondary support till the place becomes self-sustaining (in whatever way that means - local donors, centrewassi going an actually getting a job, other BKs sent there to do just that).

Mexico BK service started when a wealthy young heir from Mexico city met the BKs in Edinburgh one year when I was there for the festival. I am pretty sure Florida USA was initially, and if I am not mistaken for quite along time, funded by Rick and Sandy, a couple many may remember meeting in Mt Abu. They really liked BK Waddy (Veronica McHugh) who is a most likeable personality and, I think, let her live in one of their properties in Tampa.

The interesting thing about the well-off is how their donations affect them minimally. It is excess that is not missed.

Maui, in my experience, I have seen a stark comparison between those who donate time and energy compared to those who donate money. The former have basically said, ”I am yours do with me as you will - and they can get seriously dissed, abused, walked all over; whereas the latter, the cash donors - have autonomy. It is that autonomy that let's them earn the cash and let's them have a choice whether to donate any or not; and some eventually walk away, while others become ”subscribers" who get special treatment.
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Maui

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post26 Nov 2017

Absolutely correct PP, on all counts; and the relationships continue re: Florida.

It has also been my experience about the stark comparison you described between those donating money vs. those giving all time and energy. I have found it over the years disgusting and have grown to have great disdain for this. And, as you say, rich donor is supporting these people, the one I know is totally impressed with this particular soul. I did a workshop with the one in the USA and she needed a car; this donor provided her with a new one. When I asked the donor, whom I knew, I was told "she needed it". No questions asked. I was also told Mohini knew about it, but to this I cannot verify truthfulness.

Ex-I ... from where I sit and can discern, there is no negotiation between the organization and donor/or person involved. The disparity is offensive; but as PP points out so accurately I believe, it is excess that is not missed by the donors. The one I believe to be a total opportunist uses and takes; her donor is Indian. She gives much service but she has a good gig going. The other one donor is not. I know I sound sarcastic, but at this point in where I am trying to untangle myself from all this, I really don't care how I sound.

Wouldn't it be wonderful for that money/monies to be supplied to perhaps help those needing it in illness ... just a thought ...
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post27 Nov 2017

Maui wrote:Wouldn't it be wonderful for that money/monies to be supplied to perhaps help those needing it in illness ... just a thought ...

Or for the money to be used to truly protect, liberate and empower young women and girls in India rather than sustain the fat, physical and metaphorical around Baba's Princesses?

This issue or system, which is a kind of 'hidden system' because it is not discussed openly in strategy meetings or openly taught to all (it must be taught to some), was the last straw that broken my back. All the attention on chasing after VIPs and the wealthy who, absolutely, had no interest in actually surrendering like the rest of us. And it was a response directly at the Kirpalani Klan at the very core of cult; Janki and unquestioning lieutenant Jayanti. The supposedly purest of pure, most powerful of powerful.

Here's a couple of examples of the hypocrisy. There was another wealthy couple in the USA did not actually follow the Maryadas but who were offered to open and start up a centre, because they had money and property. On the other hand, at our level as "footsoldiers" for the Yugya, we were not even allowed to leave one centre and go to another without permission, nor to start up centres or sub-centres. Our lives were decided upon by the needs of the centre, ie if the centre needed members to bring in the money to support it and keep it running.

In another case in the USA, a young India Sister did excellent work to raise awareness and put on a good example so that a local Indian business was willing to make a hefty donation. From memory, it was $50,000.

When the check arrived, so did Big Mohini. She hoovered it up and took it away to New York never to be seen again, the Sister left to face to the donor. No explanation was made for where it had gone, how it had been used. Not just that Sister but others left soon after, I understand the women was broken by losing her faith.

Because the Brahma Kumaris have a distinct "sanskar" of hiding their past and not discussing finances, these events are not document nor accounted for allowing the cycles to be repeated again and again with new recruits.

Like you.

Same too with the covering up of the failed predictions of destruction.

I hear more about individual BKs feathering their own nest and exploiting cultures which throw money at holy people.

It seems to be to the real game, the real religion, the real structure and system of BKism that is not taught but operated by the inner circle, one that Janki illustrated to me, ie how she at first established a financial circle to financial support her and then grew it large enough to buy power and influence in Madbhuban. We were just pawns in that game.

It's not that "the BKs are all about the money" (although perhaps they are), it's that understanding the money, the economic of the cult, are to really understand how it operates.

I've also notice that it's money that decides what is adopted and what is not, eg "serving" Fortune 500 corporate executive (the most ridiculous activity) instead of adopting ethical and accountable systems or protecting the welfare of adherents (like providing rights and pensions etc).

How much money have they and why cannot they tell even their adherents?
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Mann

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post01 May 2018

Hi.

I hope you all are doing well. I thought it will be nice to post the readers of this thread about how my life has been going on.

I left the surrendered life in June 2017 but continued going to the center in the new city (I went to because my new job required me to shift). I saw the same corruption, greed, chasing VIPs and dishonesty even in this center. This, added to the sister-in-charge of the center being very short tempered, caused me to drift away again in September. I have never set my foot in any BK center since then. The reason I had gone was as mentioned in my earlier posts ... the need to belong, recognition of being a teacher-guru etc.

I have had a very fulfilling life since then. I have a good job, a beautiful flat to live, some new non-BK friends and a short love-affair too. Life is not like how it is projected in the Murlis. Maya did not eat me or hit me. I was and I am still happy. I have learnt that I was living a madman's delusion. And after waking up to the reality I have realised that I an ordinary human being like everybody else. I have my flaws too and I am not a guru let alone be a perfect surrendered Sister. I am glad being normal.

I listen to music, work with men who are not lusty dogs and eating out (with onion and garlic) did not make me impure. The biggest relief was to work, live in an environment free from repressed sexuality. Men around me don't pretend to be perfect Kumars.

I can see, feel and breathe free.

Colourful wardrobe does look good too :D.
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post01 May 2018

Mann wrote:Life is not like how it is projected in the Murlis. Maya did not eat me or hit me. I was and I am still happy ... I am glad being normal.

A heartfelt hooray for you from me.

And thank you very much for dropping by, updating us, and encouraging others who will come along and read this.

However, as much as we are greatful for your posts, insights and feedback, please don't even feel bound to hang on here. It's often best to remove every reminder of them for a while, even us and this forum. Moving on is moving on.
I listen to music, work with men who are not lusty dogs ... I can see, feel and breathe free.

Ah, but remember, Dadi Janki says, watch out for the ones with beards!!! ;). Men that is, not dogs.

She always did have a thing about men with beards and we used to joke about it. Clearly she never hung out with hipsters in all her life ... and likes her men emasculated as eunuch boys.

Thank you very much again. Have fun and keep learning.
This, added to the sister-in-charge of the center being very short tempered

Ah ... but, you see ...

The difference is, she was "Remembering Baba" while she was being very short tempered, so everything was yogyukt (OK) and Baba must have been *inspiring her* to be short tempered for *your benefit* and to test you. The Murli says, "it was your karma to have a short tempered center-in-charge, and so you will just have to suffer it for years, Remember Baba more and send her your thoughts to make it all stop !!!" Ask Dadi for Shrimat and she will tell you, "Do more Yoga!" (A joke. It does not work ... but it is a true representation of BK way thinking. Anything to keep you shackled on their farm).

This is for you ...

I was watching a fascinating documentary about Hedy Lamarr, an old fashioned Hollywood actress ... another form of "idealised woman" (by which I am inferring that 'standard issue' Brahma Kumaris are also living a life as idealised women ... Lekhraj Kirpalani's idealised gopi ... "walking talking dolls" for the Dadis to play with and only a partial, artificial life).

It's called “Bombshell: The Hedy Lamarr Story”. The short version is, she was hugely intelligent and creative and denied expressing it; yet, despite that, she went on to develop one of the key 21st Century inventions, and was denied any credit or payment for it again ... because the society she lived in demanded she/women live and act in a certain way they and her looks defined. And was very deeply unhappy doing so.

From an ex-BK point of view, it is also interesting that one of the things that crushed her, was her involvement in 1933 art movie called “Ecstasy” (Extase), th
at frankly explored women’s natural sexuality.

At the end of the documentary, she quotes 'The Paradoxical Commandments' of Dr. Kent M. Keith. They may not be right but they are wise and probably as much "religion" as anyone needs to work on (written when he was only 19 years old).
Kent M. Keith wrote:People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered.
Love them anyway.

If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish ulterior motives.
Do good anyway.

If you are successful, you will win false friends and true enemies.
Succeed anyway.

The good you do today will be forgotten tomorrow.
Do good anyway.

Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable.
Be honest and frank anyway.

The biggest men and women with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest men and women with the smallest minds.
Think big anyway.

People favor underdogs but follow only top dogs.
Fight for a few underdogs anyway.

What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight.
Build anyway.

People really need help but may attack you if you do help them.
Help people anyway.

Give the world the best you have and you’ll get kicked in the teeth.
Give the world the best you have anyway.

To which I would add, "If you have to kick someone in the ass who needs it, do it in a way that you won't get caught doing it ... Protect yourself, you are valuable to us".

Hedy also said,
Hedy Lamarr wrote:Any girl can be glamorous. All you have to do is stand still and look stupid.

The BKs seem to have taken that to heart in their own way, e.g.
ex-l wrote:"Any girl can be spiritual. All you have to do is sit still and look stupid."

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Pink Panther

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post02 May 2018

Hedy Lamarr, yes, she was an accomplished mathematician who came up with the maths that became the basis for what became Wi-Fi technology invented by the CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation) - an Australian government-funded not-for-profit research organisation that has also given the world the Hendra virus vaccine, extended wear contact lenses, a number of agricultural breakthroughs like self-twisting yarn for wool, new breeds of wheat and barley that resist ‘rust' and drought, 100s of cotton breeds that need less water and insecticides, air cargo scanners (for drugs and chemicals), Antenna feed systems for satellites, weather forecast modelling software 10 times more accurate than previous and hundreds more.

Mann, I appreciate the follow ups, you sound like you are in a very good place. Kali Yuga is over for you, a fantasy like Santa Claus we are fortunate enough to have seen through. Well done.
ex-l wrote:[Dadi Janki] always did have a thing about men with beards and we used to joke about it ... likes her men emasculated as eunuch boys.

When she went on her first rampage against a couple of ”Brothers” (adult men) who’d grown beards, essentially put them down in front of the class and they then shaved them off, I grew my first beard! Yes, it suited me (I thought). Later on they loosened up as they were finding a lot of resistance from bearded Sikhs and, well, bums on seats comes first.
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post02 May 2018

Pink Panther wrote:When she went on her first rampage against a couple of ”Brothers” (adult men) who’d grown beards, essentially put them down in front of the class and they then shaved them off ... Later on they loosened up as they were finding a lot of resistance from bearded Sikhs and, well, bums on seats comes first.

I wonder where that came from ... perhaps her husband had one, or some anti-Saddhu/anti-Sikh sentiment. Some irrational, unresolved psychology. It's strange because I don't think it's really an Indian value of acceptability. More, at that time, a Western one.

She also used to get on the case of any Brother growing their hair long. Again a bit bizarre given that their "perfect man" (Krishna/Vishnu/Narayan) was portrayed with long, feminine, flowing locks.

More evidence perhaps of their predominantly conservative social values. At least for those decades. Certainly over the centres she was directly dominant of.

What was the equivalent dominance over Sisters' looks ... dress codes, hair/make up, association with Brothers?
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Mr Green

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post03 May 2018

Frustrated sexuality makes people behave strangely towards each other. Center life is terrible.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post08 May 2018

The beard business is a sexual issue. Desmond Morris in his classic: The Naked Ape, indicated that a person's face can be perceived by others to show case their naked groin area. Beards can sexually arouse women.
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post08 May 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:The beard business is a sexual issue ...

That's interesting, and logical, I'd genuinely never considered it before. So it's more a problem for the seer rather than the seen, eg like a male minister banning cleavages because they turn him on?

I was referring to Jordan Peterson’s work in another topic recently, critics are saying that "his strong celebration of a healthy masculinity is an affront to what Jung called the ‘devouring mother’.
The "devouring mother" wants to keep men boys forever — manhood is feared. The direct, passionate, and rational man is dangerous to the devouring mother, because he has real power that can’t be controlled.

This would be an interesting and highly relevent line of enquiry to BKism and the motivation of senior Sisters whose welfare depends on the support of non-related males.

The argument goes something like, in societies security comes in the form of the mother/motherland, who demands of her children-citizens that they honor their obligations to it, one of which being the need to go to provide security, even fight for it, so as to prove one's worth to society.

In times of old, mothers were encouraged to shame their sons who refused that "call of war". Those who failed to do so were "devoured" and abandoned socially, becoming shamed ones, the unclean, who could not defend the mother/motherland. Hence the "devouring" or "hateful mother" archetype.

In BKism, "the center" ... or "the Family" (as in the BKs) ... takes primacy over any of one's worldly societal connections.
the devouring mother archetype is one that can be described as a woman who selfishly loves her children, "protecting" them from the real world to such an extent that they become permanent infants — incompetent wards of the mother for life. She is only loving when her children do what she wants, and she is hateful, cruel, and even homicidal when they don't.

As social creatures, we need acceptance from our mothers, partially because when we are born we are completely dependent on our parents for survival. As a result, when we feel or get the impression our parents don't want us, a powerful desire to gain acceptance takes hold. This motivates us in many different ways to do things that make us feel more worthy of our parental figures, acknowledged in psychology generals as the motivating power of shame. When we grow up, [our] society takes on this role of parental figure, shaming us to do things to earn acceptance from our peers, society, or the world in general.

How far are BK senior Sisters and center-in-charges so "perfected" that they are above such deep, sub-conscious drives and manipulations?

How far would the selfish interests of the senior Sisters go ... especially in the old days when the cult or centres were small yet their welfare utterly depended on them for food, clothing and shelter ... as far as jealousy of other "productive" women with men and families to support them ... as far as to separating individuals from supportive/protective men and families in order that they support them, the Sisters, instead?

The tool of shaming, social abandonment and outcasting, and the labelling of others as "unclean" (actually as impure of "body-conscious" in the BKs' language) is widely used in BKism, especially in making individuals feel a failure if they refuse to conform to the control and exploitation of the leadership.
Put simply, is not
    Conforming to the control and exploitation of the leadership, to supporting and protecting them is pure.
    Not conforming to the control and exploitation of the leadership, and supporting and protecting them, being distracted by other responsibilities is impure?.
One could analyse BKism very largely as a "devouring mother syndrome" writ large, merely a survival tactic evolved by a certain group or mentality of clever women, who have learned to control men without providing reciprocal sexual services, by infantilising them to a level where a merely the smallest mental/emotional reciprocation from the chosen inner circle is enough to keep them in place. And in which young women, seeking freedom from sexual reciprocation or domination by males, "learns the trade" from them.

We should split this subject if anyone is interested in taking it up.
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kmanaveen

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post08 May 2018

Pink Panther wrote:When she went on her first rampage against a couple of ”Brothers” (adult men) who’d grown beards, essentially put them down in front of the class and they then shaved them off ... Later on they loosened up as they were finding a lot of resistance from bearded Sikhs and, well, bums on seats comes first.

I wonder where that came from ...

May be she got some beard on her face quite early and she hated it!!
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Maui

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post08 May 2018

That's wonderful Mann! I sincerely appreciate the update; it give me hope that I can continue to detangle myself. I am very happy for you!
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post08 May 2018

kmanaveen wrote:May be she got some beard on her face quite early and she hated it!!

Well, she did ... that's a fact ... and there may be more truth to what you are saying than you realise. There's a theory that "we dislike in others what we see in ourself".

It was really quite irrational, I don't remember reading anything about beards or hair length in the Murlis ... which, demanding they remove them, would have been an insult to Sikhs. Unless the intention was to de-Sikh, de-Saddhu, de-hippie or de-masculate BK males.

Was it a particularly Bhaibund caste thing to shave or a 1930s thing (appear more British)? Her Loverboy Lekhraj Kirpalani used to sport a fine moustache.

In any case, she only got away with it because we let her and, like so many of the abuses of boundaries and interferences with personal liberties within the BKWSU, was encouraged by elder BKs and the middle management who encouraged us to believe she was "One of the 8" and her every utterance equal to the word of God, touched and directed by him. Others were just as bad.

However, there was a turn around a number of years ago when, no doubt, after "a touching from Baba" all the Seniors started to improving their "personal grooming" and appearances in a very body conscious way.

Was it directed from Baba the Subtle Regions? How did it come about?

Can any Sister centrewassis inform and correct us ... were they given "Shrimat" directions regarding facial and bodily hairs? So much else, eg choice of underwear, hair style and when to wash it, limitations while subjected to one's period and so on, were controlled.

One's body as "property", a tool surrendered to them and institution. Expected to operate at 100% efficiency, 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Experiences of those surrendered, living at the center?

Post09 May 2018

The change or upgrade in appearance could have been due to Western cultural influences. You cannot be chasing after VIPs and not dressing for success. Once at a public program in a Western metropolis, the BK Brothers were all decked out in chorta and pajamas.

One Western BK a medical student wore his three-piece suit. The BK Brothers were quick to shed their white pajama clothing and suit-up with jackets, collars and ties like the BK medical student.
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