Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Scientific challenges to the beliefs promoted by the Brahma Kumaris so called "World Spiritual University"
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GuptaRati 6666

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Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post02 Jun 2018

I teach college chemistry and to end the course I screened for my classes the arousing documentary directed by Dr. Gary Null, tiled: 'Knocking On The Devil's Door'. There are academic heavy weights featured in the video, including Professor Dr. Michio Kaku, Dr. Helen Coldicott, and Dr. Van Dam Shiva. My classes were studying nuclear chemistry, the last unit or module in the year long course and I decided to screen Dr. Null's documentary.

As I facilitated pre- and post-screening discussions with my students I could not help thinking about the paradox in BK philosophy on the nuclear industry.

For the BKs, nuclear energy will be available in Sat Yug; however, their environmental/ecological activism seems anti-nuclear. To support an energy industry which can easily switch from atoms for peace to atoms for mass destruction, when alternative energy can satisfy the energy needs of earth many times seems a great practical paradox.

It is a paradox in which the BKs are playing with that which is worse than fire.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post02 Jun 2018

Its a pretty obtuse argument I am going to make, but here goes.

The fascination with nuclear power that was so evident in the Murlis is IMO another proof that it was an earth-bound, time-bound intellect behind it - Dada Lekhraj, a.k.a ”Brahma Baba”, not any incorporeal omnisicent God from beyond time and space.

At the time (1940s-70s), nuclear fission (splitting the atom) was emblematic of the pinnacle of human technology, so of course it was going to be the energy source of the coming Golden Age. It has since been replaced by sub-atomic particle physics, cybernetics, nano technology, genetics and, coming over the horizon quantum computing and A.I. etc.

I am sure if the research was done into cults around the time of James Watt, you'd find one that would have had a their envisioned Paradise powered by steam engines fuelled with coal!

The Australian Dr Helen Caldicott you mention is an unrecognised National Treasure, more highly regarded overseas than here where right-wingnuts vilify her as a pinko greenie.

She has worked for decades to rally medical professionals to campaign against nuclear energy on the basis of its harms to all carbon-based organisms. I wonder what her attitude would be to BKs acceptance of Lekhraj’s proposal that we all get ready to ”steal the butter” after (cough, splutter, ’scuse me) "The Transformation” they are willing to happen through their ”Yoga power”?
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ex-l

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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post02 Jun 2018

Pink Panther wrote:At the time (1940s-70s), nuclear fission (splitting the atom) was emblematic of the pinnacle of human technology, so of course it was going to be the energy source of the coming Golden Age. It has since been replaced ...

Very good points being made.

I'd have to look back at the original documents but it would certainly have to be post-WWII because the Manhattan Project was a secret until the Americans performed their vivisection experiment on the Japanese people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A terrible crime.

And let us remember, imaging an "End of the World" - according to the available technology of the time - has be stock in trade for all cults for 1,000s of years. Too many to mention here but listed elsewhere on this site.

The BKs themselves, of course, don't record when "God" changed his mind and started to predict a nuclear war, nor a nuclear powered, high tech Golden Age future. It certainly was not in the 1930s when the cult started.

What we do see is the BKs perpetually morphing, moving with the times according to new information coming in from the outside world, not their god spirit, eg in the earlier pictures of Destruction (The Tree poster), it is clearly Harry S. Truman (President of the USA, 1945-1953) and Stalin, in a later one it becomes Eisenhower and Khrushchev.

This is, of course, a huge paradox they rather casually and insolently brush over in an instance ... all "truth" is suppose to flow from the god spirit but actually it's all morphing, manipulation and shameless re-positioning according to newly arising worldly influences. It may even have not been from Lekhraj Kirpalani but overactive minds such as the notoriously quixotic and inaccurate Jagdish Chander.

Yes, by the 1950s, nuclear power was being pushed on the people of the world as some kind of "clean energy" miracle (Ford even proposed a nuclear-powered concept car in 1958) ... I suppose even the Indian newspapers, comics and society would have been filled with talk of it too.

When did it all first make it into BK lore ... before or after Westerners started to turn up?

Excuse the sarcasm, but is it not amazing that the BK god spirit could foretell the Destruction of humanity by a nuclear war in 1950, 1976 or 1986 ... but not forsee 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima etc and the effects of nuclear fall out (the technical problems with a Golden Age after a nuclear "cleanings" are far large than just radioactivity). I'd suggest it was just a fruity add on, an embelishment, to thrill his audience.

The first nuclear power plant in India was commissioned in 1969. Talk about building a nuclear reaction in Rajasthan started in 1961, only about 200 miles from Abu. A introduction to India's nuclear history is, here. (Bizarrely, India called its first nuclear weapons test "Smiling Buddha").

Lekhraj Kirpalani was an infamous cinema goer and highly susceptible to its influence. We know this from the accounts of his life, his personal and cultural influences (inspiring him to get married, which he deeply regreted afterwards, and those terrible 1930s Bollywood songs they used to use etc) and his responses to it (calling it a gateway to hell and banning BKs from going to it etc) ...

I suspect the ideas were more just from the British 'Pathe News' type newsreels of the war in Europe that they showed before the main feature film, e.g. of the Spanish Civil War (1936) that would have been shocking enough.

Likely the illterate BK Om Mandli women would not have seen them and Lekhraj Kirpalani was just filtering through what he saw in the cinema or read in the papers, telling ghost stories and fairy stories to excite and entertainment while he held them in his thrall, destroying their families and enjoying their intimate company.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post03 Jun 2018

Pink and Ex-I,

Thank you for your fact-filled responses. The interactive map by the National Threat Initiative, indicates geographic locations for nuclear facilities in India; locations include nuclear power plants, mining for radioactive minerals, and heavy water preparation sites. Should any of the sites, such as the nuclear power plants in the state of Gujarat or Rajasthan have major malfunctions, a nuclear meltdown is possible. The BK headquarters at Mount Abu is in harms way of any malfunction of the nuclear facilities located as far away as 100 miles.

Reference

National Threat Initiative. (). Rajasthan Atomic Power Station (RAPS). Retrieved from http://www.nti.org/gmap/nuclear_india.html?/
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post03 Jun 2018

The Brahma Kumari cult is said to have actually started in 1932, according to the early court proceedings we have record of. WWII did not start until 1939. Did Lekhraj Kirpalani actually foree anything, or was it all just added in after WWII, and his own personal conflicts, start?

We know so much of the "official history" is utterly falsified, why not this?

(Remember, he and they literally thought that WWII was a manifestation of their communal conflicts within the Bhaibund of Hyderbad).

Lekhraj Kirpalani taught from the Bhagavad Gita, although not very well according to witnesses ("good enough for the women and children" it was said) and he came to believe he was Krishna, and this time was a repeat of events said to be 5,000 years before it in. Were the war stories just taken from it, the Bhagavad Gita being just part of the great Hindu war epic Mahabharata (chapters 23–40 of the 6th book) ... later mixed up and embellished by stories from WWII?

It's hard to tell because the earliest available materials dates only back to about 1939 or 42 but there's not even mention of the fantastical weaponry contained within that story ... like the "Pashupatastra", launched by the mind, from the eyes, by words, or from a bow and capable of destroying all creation. It was a personal weapon of Shiva ... but not actually used by Arjuna in the story. Or the Brahmastras which have been compared to the nuclear weapons of today.

I guess now, what with all the old ladies dead, and post the putsch of historical revisionism, we may never know now.

Fake history has won and been made concrete. A defensive wall of falsehood around them, locking people in.

Do BKs these days still actually believe in any of these stuff, or has it all just been watered down into some vague mush of "Transforming" the planet?
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post06 Jun 2018

When Einstein fled Nazi Germany and came to the United States, he wrote a letter to Roosevelt alerting him to the development of an atomic bomb by the Nazis. The Manhattan Project was the United States response to the weaponizing of the atom by Nazi German. Scientists from around the world in many different ethnicity participated in the Manhattan Project, including mathematicians and physicists from the Indian sub-continent.

I do recall the BKs' emphasis on using the Bhagvad Gita to gain international attention in the mid-1970s and there was a great enthusiasm to mail their ideas of the Gita to technocrats in the USA, including Dr. Harold Brown, Secretary of Defense in the Carter Administration. At that time Zbigniew Brzezinski, was Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor.
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post06 Jun 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:When Einstein fled Nazi Germany and came to the United States, he wrote a letter to Roosevelt alerting him to the development of an atomic bomb by the Nazis. The Manhattan Project was the United States response to the weaponizing of the atom by Nazi German ...

As an aside, I wonder if that is really what happened?

I don't trust "official" American history any more than I trust "official" Brahma Kumari history, and I know "official" BK history is false. So is much of America's.

Given that the great "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds" J Robert Oppenheimer, Einstein and others involved ... were also deeply entrenched within the Zionist movement of that era, I would trust such an account even less.

Zionists remain to this day extremely adept at manipulating America's brutal potential and inhumanity for its own benefit, eg look at the way the pro-Israel lobby manoeuvred the USA into the recent Gulf Wars using a mix of bogus fears about weapons of mass destruction, and mutual self-interest.

Such real complexities of history that yet do not even blip on the BKs' radar. To the BKs' mind, it's all just about them ... a deadly reaction in an utterly impure to world to their ascendent "purity". They believe that the more "pure", they become, the more likely the death of 7 billion human beings - all of the rest of life on this planet via nuclear war - will become.

And let us not forget the Nuclear Winter that would follow such a war, a winter some elements within the BK community they will survive frozen in ice, while the world is washed clean by the rains and tsunamis that would follow!

The cult of America is such that, for me, it appears to have a seemingly pathological need to appear to itself as a "hero" - even a Christ-like saviour of "the free world", despite all the evidence indigenous peoples from all of the world might present against it - that it often seems to create such myths blaming others for carrying out crimes that which it actually did and caused itself.

Pearl Harbor - that ultmately led to dropping of bombs on innocent Japansese women and children - being not just a typical one but having established the archetype.

I don't know the history but my immediate reaction would be to question if it was really true and whether the Americans were not just blaming the Germans for something they themselves did.

Meanwhile, returning back 'on topic' to the Brahma Kumaris, let us remember that the original documents from the 1940s and 1950s clearly evidence that Lekhraj Kirpalani literally believed that the entire conflagration of WWII was a manifestation of his creation, emanating from his communal conflicts in Hyderabad.

What sort of ego do you require ... ... how mental ill do you need to be ... to believe that you yourself are the epicentre of the world and responsible for all of that? And what mechanism exists for it to happen ... eg to "manifest" something like the Manhattan Project from 8,000 miles away?

Seriously BKs? Explain how or admit he was just out of his mind and leading the naive women of the Bhaibund out of their minds too.
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post06 Jun 2018

ex-l wrote:What sort of ego do you require ... ... how mental ill do you need to be ... to believe that you yourself are the epicentre of the world and responsible for all of that? And what mechanism exists for it to happen ... eg to "manifest" something like the Manhattan Project from 8,000 miles away?

Excuse me quoting myself to make a point.

The god spirit of the Brahma Kumari teaches its adherents to believe that they are "inspiring the scientists" to make and deploy nuclear weapons that will "purify" the world ... "inspire" despite their utter lack of any scientific education.

During WWII, the Allies had 125,000 people working on the Manhattan Project creating the first nuclear bomb. The Germans had only 60 working on their exploration of the science.

I use the same rationale as my questioning of the BKs' interpretation of Karma, that they call a scientific "law".

OK, explain how ... explain the mechanism that connected Lekhraj Kirpalani having a spat with Mukhi Mangharam and his peers within the Hyderabad Bhaiband over the abduction of their wives and daughters, with all the 125,000 individuals from all over the world and the manipulation of resources required.
Seriously BKs? Explain how or admit he was just out of his mind and leading the naive women of the Bhaibund out of their minds too.
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post07 Jun 2018

OK, explain how ...

God moves in mysterious ways ... especially as he doesn't move, nor intervene in human activity. He is at the whimsy of drama, sucked into Lekhraj's head, ie say what you need to tell yourself to believe what you want to believe. A non-provable claim should be treated with the same respect as every other, we’re ecumenical here.
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post07 Jun 2018

Therefore ...

That moves me even further towards considering that BKism is not about "knowing", or even "believing", but rather just unquestionably accepting and conforming to an institutionalised version of their - the leadership and Lekhraj Kirpalani's - mania of the 1940s. His Golden Age during which around him he was so sure the world was about to be destroyed, Krishna on the battlefield of the Mahabharata ... WWII being predicted as the Great Death of a Humanity that rejected his godliness.

In the same way as the key icons ... The Tree, The Cycle etc ... have basically not been change, just given a contemporary makeover from time to time, so to the mental state they call the philosophy remains pretty much unchanged as well, to the point of become ritualised.

A ritual madness that one must enter into and pass through to become a BK Brahmin.
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post08 Jun 2018

When I first came into Gyan, I was impressed with the BK claim in which they contended that they do not observe any ritual; rituals are a form of bakti. Later I realized that BKism was loaded with rituals.

Many of my colleagues embrace the metaphysical and some are very spiritual, including those who work for DARPA. For some of my graduate studies, I was funded by the military industrial complex. I never felt that my research would be used to destroy any form of life.
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post08 Jun 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:When I first came into Gyan, I was impressed with the BK claim in which they contended that they do not observe any ritual; rituals are a form of Bhakti.

And it has become even more loaded with rituals since then.

Something some leading BKs have been quoted as saying, Charlie in Australia being one, is that they have difficult in attracting the same quality of souls ... and are down to scrapping the bottom of the Bhakti barrel. As in, in BK terms, lowly Silver Aged Brahmins and "Bhakti souls" (human that they claim will never incarnate in heaven).

The more and more I dig into BKism, the more and more I realise that they, like the "clever businessman" Lekhraj Kirpalani was (a Sakar Murli reference), were just skilled at realising what each group of individuals were attracted to ... and selling them that.

The question I would ask is, when did the BKs add the "no ritual, no guru, no Bhakti" sales pitches?

Yes, it is true ... I fell for it all myself. I suppose it was also a little bit of ego on our behalves too? We wanted to think that we were beyond and superior to it all, and yet got hooked back in by a more slightly subtle version.

We are Brahma Kumaris ... the No Guru Gururs™

Yes, it seems that in the early days there were basically no rituals ... because Lekhraj Kirpalani wasn't actually that religious. He was not a Brahmin, was not part of any spiritual lineage. Indeed, he was criticised in the court papers for allow the Gita to "drop from his hand" onto the ground (a surprising offence and disrespect for religious Indians ... try it in a Gurudwar or conservative temple and you'd be beaten up!). The 'Om Mandli' period appears to have been a great freedom from Hindu or Sindhi codes of conventions. It seems to have been quite a party. The trappings they adopted were all modern, eg dressing up in European style uniforms, like they were attending a British school.

The re- "Hindu-ification" of BKism happened later, including the adoption of the white sari ... probably inspired from Gandhi's by then successful Home Rule movement.

As the BKs have evolved, they have added back many Lite™ versions of Bhakti rituals taken from other religions, and adaptions of many Hindu icons, on order to attract Bhakti followers ... and, presumably, to stave off the boredom of doing nothing and having nothing to do, eg the candle lighting they love to do. (I think I remember when that came in, during the 1980s, from a Jewish BK convert when they adopted the lighting of Menorah candles).

Offering food (Bhog) and fake trance messaging they used to on Thursdays were clearly ritualised. Given we still don't know how, when and why Shiva was actually added into the religion post 1955/56 ... I think the easiest assumption is just to assume it was simple them covering all the Hindu bases, e.g ...
"We got Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar, Krishna and Narayan ... what about we add Shiva too to attract the Shivaites?

A one stop spiritual supermarket selling "New, Improve Bhakti Lite™".
Many of my colleagues embrace the metaphysical and some are very spiritual, including those who work for DARPA.

I suppose if we try to answer the depths of that question, we will have to find ourselves back on the Kurukshetra field with Krishna and Arjun arguing over the morality of war.

Does not that seem like a little bit of a psychological disconnection to you, typical of Americans claiming to be "Christians", and instantly forgetting Christ's exhortations not to kill and turn the other cheek?

Obviously the "military industrial complex" invests in much more research than just that used to destroy life, the internet included. They just happen to be the people with the biggest budgets to throw around, and perhaps the least demands put on them to come up with positive results.

How much more could come out of all those budgets if they were not directed at war; domination and control?
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post10 Jun 2018

Kurukshetra may not have strong archeological evidence to verify its existence in ancient times; Megiddio in Egypt, from which the word Armageddon originates, was a real battle field in which Thutmosis III of the 18th Dynasty, ancient Egypt's most military monarchs, won a successful war. He, according to historical evidence, was the biblical King David and has royal connections to Jesus Christ.

The historical Jesus was not a preacher in white robs and sandals walking from village to town talking about a heavenly kingdom; he was a Pharaoh, schooled in the arts of war, Egyptian shamanism and the mysticism of India, Persia, and China. He was waging a war against Rome and had at his disposal 500 mounted archers and units of Siccari, feared assassins who were skilled martial artists.

The ahimsa Jesus is fiction created by Paul (Saul Josephus) to please the Romans, who made Paul regent of the top university in Palestine.

BKism tell us very little about the historical Jesus and his connections to the Amarna Dynasty and the influence of the dynasty on modern medicine, science, and technology.
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post11 Jun 2018

ex-l wrote:Something some leading BKs have been quoted as saying, Charlie in Australia being one, is that they have difficult in attracting the same quality of souls ... and are down to scrapping the bottom of the Bhakti barrel.

I’d say that in the West, in the 1970s and '80s when the BKs were expanding internationally, most people were naive about eastern cults and religions, even the "best and brightest". These days only the poorly educated or the unthinking fall for it. So, in a sense Charlie Hogg may be right.

All the people I knew as a BK who were what I would consider well educated and/or good thinkers have all left, or at most they keep an extremely tenuous relationship with the BKs. The only exceptions, those who should know better, who are still in thick with the BKs are those with major vested interests, whose life, lifestyle and egos are tied up with that relationship.
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Re: Are the BKs Knocking On The Devil's Door?

Post15 Jun 2018

Pink, when there is the recruiting of souls from the bottom of the barrel, there can be a subsequent creation of dissidence as has been demonstrated by the resentment of BK Indo-centrism by Western BKs.
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