My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our family

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Rita

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post31 Oct 2018

Hi ex-l, you are right.

First you should make efforts to get him back to reality. Otherwise the BKs can trick him again by using useless philosophies.

I just hate them to the core. I am waiting for the time when these tricksters will be in jail or will be suffering.
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Pink Panther

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post31 Oct 2018

Prerna,

As ex-l said, many people here were BKs for many years, even teachers and deeply involved. The suggestion to go to Seniors needs to be put into perspective.

The hierarchy in BKism is very defined and it parallels geography. If you live in a small town with one or two centres, they will be under supervision of whoever is in charge of the nearest big town that may have 3 or more centres (one of those centres will be the main one. Then that bigger town will be under the supervision of the state capital or biggest town, eg in Mumbai where there are many centres, there will be one person who is Maharashtra state ”in-charge, usually a ”Didi” - older Sister.

In my experience, you may get somewhere from this level but you may need to go to Mt Abu HQ to one of the Seniors there, especially one who may be more sympathetic to a son and his Brother who are yearning for their ”absent Father”. Someone like Nirwair, a senior ”Brother”.

Actually the research into the damage an absent Father can do to a son (emotionally absent is as bad as physically absent) has been the subject of a few books. You may want to leave on of those lying around too!
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ex-l

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post31 Oct 2018

It sounds like you need to quietly speak to supportive people at his work as well. Again, with the promise of confidentiality until you have a sufficient understanding of BKism, their philosophy, the terminology, and the tricks or manipulations they use.

It may be that if you can combine concerned family and co-workers - AND a fair criticism or understanding of BKism - there may be a possibility of waking him up to what is going on.

But, to achieve something like that - and it is a risky strategy that I would not immediately recommend - you need to be able to explain to him what BKism is, what it has done to others in the past, its methods and so on, eg the many failed predictions of the End of the World they exploit newcomers with ... either that or start to prepare your mother for divorcing him. A final "either/or" option ( but never make a threat if you are not going to carry it through).

At present, you don't have the accurate information to do that successfully. As you say, he will only dismiss it as BKs versus the ignorant, "impure shudras" and on their "path of ignorance" and use all the mental tricks the BKs will feed him.

It is possible that, as he had a scientific background, perhaps you can try and engage him on a scientific level to question BKism, eg their 5000 year identical Kalpa Cycle of Time ... but again, you need to know more first I think.

However, as Pink has argued before ... BKism is not about logic and rationalism and so can rarely be "won" on that level. It appeals to people on some social or unanswered emotional level, eg a "calm" family, undemanding "spiritual" feminine company, to the individual's broken ego (made to feel special). You need to work out what it or that is.

Although the BK Sisters do not use sex, there is a subtle seduction level to their attentions either at sisterly (wife) or a maternal level, eg the older senior Sisters act like loving mothers or grandmothers.

Many of the "positive thinking" mantras they use are actually second hand from other authors or sources.

How did he become involve with the BKs?

I am not so convinced that any of the BKs would tell him to come back to you, at the very least they will always look to keep the door open, to have a 50:50 solution, to deceive you/the family for a short time to try and win you over to supporting the BKs. Once they have their teeth in, they don't like to let go.

I, myself, have been told to deceive my own family by them in this way when I was a BK.

The only way for them to want to let go is it he becomes a problem for them in terms of bad PR or trouble and noise ending up back at their centre, in a way that would be bad for their business.

They know they destroy families but they keep doing it decade after decade. They live off it. It's how they make their money and expand ... by stealing other families' adult members.
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ex-l

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post31 Oct 2018

Also, you need to play the game like the BKs do ... with their subtle "drip feeding" of adherents. But drip feeding him to keep bringing him back into reality.
    Does he and your mother still have a sexual relationship? Were they affectionate, does she/will she miss that?

    Does he still eat your mother's homemade food?
Those are the first two key element to the cut off and separation process.
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Prerna

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post31 Oct 2018

At first, he used to watch that peace channel randomly. Some of the programs were really good and taught nice things. Sometimes even all of us together would watch them. Even he liked the positive talks and everything. Since he was short tempered so he thought that he must try to change for good and do meditation.

Initially it was my mother who went to the center but after going there for 2-3 times she said that she didn’t like the vibes there she was getting from people, and the long eye contact that the Sisters made with her was making her uncomfortable so she stopped it there and then. My Father never went to the center at first but rather he just started to wake up at 4 am and did the meditation. He found it very relaxing and his temper reduced to a great extent. And we were all really casual about everything because the change was positive and he just meditated in the morning and watch that channel on TV in the evening for an hour or so and everything else was the same; his routine his behavior his affection towards my mother etc but the main problem started when he started going to the center say about year and a half ago.

Initially he stopped being intimate with my mother and, yes, my mother was upset and there was tension at my home regarding this. But somehow my mother had to let go because he was reluctant to talk to her about it. Then slowly things worsened. But it was only between my Father and mother. It was solely their relationship which was affected. He was detached from her. Now it's been just a few weeks (2-3) that he came home and told that he is taught some new form of meditation and that he completely loses his consciousness when he does that and is lost in some other world. It was after that that he started behaving differently with everyone at home.

Yes, he still eats at home but very scarcely and would usually try to avoid. He doesn’t eat complete meals. There is a cook at my home and she cooks the food. But, in the morning, my mother makes breakfast and he would say not to make for him as he is not hungry etc etc though sometimes he would act really normal and even eat junk food with my Brother and Sister. So it's really confusing for us and sometimes we feel like everything is okay and it's just our mind bithering, but then most of the times it feels like there is some other spirit in the body of our Father and it's not him who is talking, it's some evil spirit. The house feels so negative and literally we feel like something is haunting us.

He has told my Sister that he will not be able to give her pocket money from now on but no mention of the reason. We don’t know if he is just doing it to make her understand something or is it purely because he has some other new expenses. My mother is working from home so most of the expenses are borne by her only.

Whatever is happening, it sometimes feels so unreal because we never thought that such a thing could ever hapoen to him. As he always taught us from childhood that God only lies in our good deeds and always be helpful to others. He never believed in the concept of any real God. He always taught us to be kind and that is the real God. He always said that all these religious institutions are fake and bogus. Just be true to yourself and others and you will be happy. He always helped the needy and poor. He was crazy for education and studies.

Even now at this age he used to wake up and study. Solve statistical problems, play sudoku, read competitive exam books etc he would help the poor students to buy books and guide them for future help them to get admissions. But now he doesn’t feel that it’s important. All that matters to him now is meditation. He would sometimes get upset with my mother that she doesn’t go with him to the center, so she would say that she feels negativities there so she will not go.

I don’t believe that he can forget the morals that he inculcated into our minds since childhood. Somewhere those things should be in him still now.
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Chinks

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post31 Oct 2018

Hello,

I’m the younger Sister. Whenever we try talking to him he either nods, replies with “hmm” or just completely ignores us, until we push him to talk back. And not even just us, our relatives as well. He was such a social person and would meet his friends every weekend and talk to his old boss who lives in USA almost everyday in the morning. But now we rarely see him talking to him or about him ever. We really don’t know how to put him under any responsibilities as he rarely stays at home. Sunday is the only day we could spend with him but now on sundays he just goes to the centre around 6-7 in the morning, come back around 11 and then again go to the centre in the evening around 6 and come back around 8.

We’ve been emphasising him to eat food at home. But he barely eats anything. The BK has really become his whole universe and I hate to see my Father like this.

Thank you all for the love and support.

Xx
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Pink Panther

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post01 Nov 2018

Prerna wrote:But in the morning my mother makes breakfast and he would say not to make for him as he is not hungry etc etc. though sometimes he would act really normal and even eat junk food with my Brother and Sister.

This is part of their ”food” principles. They see factory made processed food as less ”infected” by body conscious vibrations of non-brahmins. Very much like the old caste born Brahmins who would not eat any food if even the shadow of a dalit (untouchable caste) had passed over it. Impure.

If you offer a ”pukka” BK a choice between eating a very nutritious meal cooked by a non-BK or a plate of processed, nutrition-less ”junk” food - regardless of what they are attracted to, they will follow what they call "Shrimat” (”elevated directions”) and choose the junk.

Are you aware that BKs consider themselves as ”true” Brahmins? They are instructed not to eat food cooked by any non-BK, even a caste-born Brahmin who is following all the traditional rules of their caste is not a "true Brahmin” if they are not a BK.

The special new meditation he is enchanted by is when they take the newcomer beyond sitting calmly and affirming peaceful loving thoughts etc. They will then be taught to focus their mind on a conceptual point of light which they say is ’the self” or ’the immortal soul” and to look into the eyes of a person sitting on a ‘gaddi” (elevated platform) who is ‘leading' the meditation. This gives rise to a sort of ‘transference” - the notional transfer that the source of the experience is not from within the individual nut from the supposedly more powerful person up front. There are a number of topics on this forum that examine the dynamics of what's going on in BK meditation techniques.

They are then taught to meditate on the BK version of ”God” (which has changed over the decades) which, they are told, is the actual source of all their good feelings, and, as there are already good feelings felt, the newcomer will often accept this and associate those feelings with this narrative and decide ”it must be true”. Like a child believes the presents were given by Santa Claus because they had heard of Santa and now , there’s the presents!

That is, what the BKs offer to begin with are basic methods which most people would consider universal - positive thinking, affirmations. They teach a person who is looking for calm to allocate specific time for that, to sit calmly and to let go of certain thoughts and feelings by affirming alternative positive ones. This is not unique to BKs by any means.

But because this is often the first experience many people have of the effects of this simple meditation, they are open to what later comes - that which ‘catches” them on a hook and makes them a devotee/student/addict of the BK cult. (Many discussions here onsite about what makes something a ”cult”).

That is, it’s the classic trick used by any con-artist. First there is the ”convincer” - give the person something to gain their trust. Then, when they are ready, ask them to accept something they would not have accepted before. Once accepted, to back out is to admit one 's error, and that is more difficult if there is still some reward beign exchanged - whether it be some meditation experience, or community, or simply a place to go away from one's daily problems.

It is an interesting exercise to sit and list what is 'universal' and what is uniquely BK in what the BKs do and teach.

If you do this, you will find that the "good stuff” is not unique to BKs - even many of the concepts and meditations are to be found elsewhere.

Then you will see more clearly that what is causing trouble and disharmony actually is the stuff unique to BKs.
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Prerna

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post01 Nov 2018

How do we make him realize that he is falling into a trap?

How can it be that such practical and educated people are so easily misguided by them and they lose all their sanity?

I want to remove this blindfold that they have tied to his eyes. I want to bring him back to the reality.

They must be doing something so evil to him otherwise how can he forget what he has been for the past 50 years, all that he has gained through experience and surrender himself to them without questioning.
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ex-l

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post01 Nov 2018

Quick reply ...

He appears to be in the phase where the BK Sisters are encouraging him to "wean" your mother and family off him by putting up an act and compromising slightly for the sake of face, eg by taking only a little food, withdrawing his physical love and, typically, telling him not to give money to your Sister because it would be bad karma for him *IS* something they would tell him to do.

Giving money to give money to your Sister would be seen as negative, entangling karma. As typically audacious as they are ... only giving money to them is good or purifying karma.

So where is he eating? Are they feeding him at the centre? Strictly speaking, as a BK, he will not be allow to eat the food of a servant (even if that servant is a 'non-BK' Brahmin). If they are feeding him at the centre then that's in the realm of adultery. If he is going out to eat, then that's wrong and hypocrisy from a BK point of view.

To be honest, I find the analogy of him being spiritual possessed, or possessed by the spirit of the BKs to be a useful one. It is, in essence, what is happening to him ... and it is a great shame as if he had just done Zen or Mindfulness he would have experienced all the benefits he was receiving in the early phase without all the storm of sh*t that is going to happen to him getting sucked into the BKs. He could have felt good and carried on his family life.

Some people believe in the presence of actual spiritual beings; ghosts or otherwise. Let me say this, whether you or Pink does or does not .. the BKs DO. Brahma Kumarism is *FULL* of references to ghosts, spirits, spirit possession and spirit overshadowing. The difference between the early, merely contemplative experience, and the later more intense experiences is that they believe;
    a) they are initiating followers into a relationship with a god spirit they claim is the one, highest God, and
    b) followers are at times possessed, overshadowed and psychically influenced at a distance by both living and deceased Brahma Kumari leaders.
Many people have related similar feelings to what you are reporting ... the presence of alien or evil spirits around BK members or in their homes.

Another explanation for this is what we call in the West, the "egregore" ... the group spirit. He is starting to merge with and become subjected to the BK group spirit (good and bad) and you are sensing this; and the further he goes, the more you will lose him, and the more likely - at some point - there will be a confrontation and break.

Whichever explanation you believe, I would say that in both cases, he is losing control to the drug like effect of the practise or "possession" (BKs use words like absorption or merging instead ... but *clearly* state followers are possessed and used by the BK god spirit or other BK spirits).

I am sorry, I don't have a "magic bullet" for you just yet. There is no instant cure and none of us can be there with you directly, so we can only discuss and analyse what is going on a little more to begin with. If you are to shake him out of, you will need to prepare further.

Part of that could also be us giving you a letter or something for him to read. It may have more influence than coming just from you ... perhaps something like a group confrontation (I mean that in a soft way) involving all those close and concerned for him - your family, friends and work place - and handing over something for him to read then talk to him?

At present, he probably will not know all the dirt the BKs have done, their bad habits, the failed predictions of the End of the World, the historical revision etc.

One of the problems with the BKs is that they keep refining their confidence trick and destroying the evidence of their past failure, so new followers only see the new, squeaky clean, rich and refined version.

Be warned ... and we have experienced this for a fact before ... the Brahma Kumaris will even offer advice on legal rights and divorce etc if they need to or can benefit out of it. They are not "shrinking violents" or divine angels when it comes to grabbing land, property or wealth. Chances are they will be saying things like not to support your Sister as she is an adult now, and leave your mother if she has her own income ... and take his share of the property etc.

They justify anything to themselves - including theft, fraud and others crimes - under the guise of
    a) it being used for the sake of (their) god, and
    b) karma being annuled by the remember of their god spirit while they do it.
Literally, that is what their religion teaches ... eg it is not just OK to steal but beneficial for the victim if the money etc is used to serve their god.
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Pink Panther

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post01 Nov 2018

Prerna wrote:How do we make him realize that he is falling into a trap?

I suggested earlier you make a list of what is good and what is causing problems, then go through it with him and analyse to discover whether anything on the ‘good’ list is unique to BKs and are any of those problems it is causing specific due to BKs practicves and teachings. e.g.
    Meditation that brings benefit - exists in many forms.
    Allocating routines, times, to meditate plus eating quality (veg) food for overall well being of mind and body - many traditions advise this.
    Considering oneself as a soul separate to the body - exists in many philosophies eastern (Dvaita) and Western, known as "dualism”.
    Considering soul as Point of light (jyoti bindu) - found in different Hindu traditions.
    Considering God as source or parent or Father - so common its ridiculous!
OK, let's look at problems created:
    Family relationships have new tensions, whole family noticing unwanted changes. What has brought this on?
    Is the belief bringing peace and acceptance to their surroundings or only to them? Is it causing disturbance and exclusion to everyone but themselves?
    Is their belief bringing them into clearer involvement with the "here & now" or seeking to disengage with it?
    Does the teaching make them more sociable with more types of people, or fewer ? Practically, not just theoretically.
    Are other people more comfortable now when this person is around than before, or less so?
    Is the person shutting more people out, identifying fewer as being his own ”kind” and those as superior i.e. are they becoming bigoted, categorising others more?
    Were they someone who used to think of themselves and were known by others as a good person but now feels insecure and that they have to ”purify” or redeem themselves to become ”worthy” based on some intangible evaluation?
    Has the person's circle of interests, sources of learning and information, expanded or narrowed?
    Does the person believe life today is as hopeful and beneficial as always, or do they regret their past or present?
    Do they think hope is less now than before, with only an after-life or ’transcendence" offering hope?
Addiction is when the person’s life purpose is totally organised around the object of addiction rather than people and duties in their lives. I have a theory - that BKism exploits and even generates a form of mild depression for which the meditation is both an antidote and a cause. Like addiction to opioids, it brings initial relief or pleasure but its lack becomes a cause for discomfort and seeking more relief.

My definition of a cult - a group that manipulates the individual’s needs to suit its own ends so keeps them involved/dependent for as long as possible, the group makes itself seem indispensable to the devotee so that leaving the group is unthinkable (- for BKs its taught that leaving the group is to lose spiritual status forever, fewer reincarnations etc etc).

This is in contrast to a real therapeutic practice that aims to fulfil the individual’s needs as soon as possible, making them independent, self-reliant and sending them on their way as soon as possible to live life to the full in the here and now.

Now, BKism is not the only group that does this, but they are one of the most sophisticated. No BK is genuinely aiming to be malevolent. They all sincerely believe what they believe and do what they do because they have become part of a sub-culture, a cult. Rarely does a cult member believe they themselves are in a cult, that’s the kind of things that always happens to others.
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Prerna

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post01 Nov 2018

Dear ex-I,

It would be really helpful if you could provide any text, or letter which we can show to him and possibly talk to him. All of us have been reading about BKs, watching videos, reading about the cases where families got shattered and split. In fact, the more we read and see and hear the more scared we get. We even got to know about two more such cases in our friends' circle about the same incident. We are planning to meet their families and talk to them. In both the cases, the affected member somehow ended up in the hospital and the families were destroyed and left with nothing.

Dear Pink Panther,

Thank you so much. I would surely start to makes notes now and keep details of everything that I came across so that I can prove to him and we would try and get the family members of the affected to talk to him. We have already started to keep him indulged after he comes home.

If you can provide me some links from where I can collect more information that is reliabe and which he would be forced to believe then that would be of great help. Slowly and steadily we are informing our near ones and relatives and friends about it and making sure that he doesn’t get to know. Everyone is willing to help us.

Thank you :)
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ex-l

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post01 Nov 2018

Pink Panther wrote:OK, let's look at problems created ...

To which I'd like to add a sort of subtle nihilism, like a creeping cancer that is going to destroy his future, based on the beliefs that;
    the whole world is impure and about to be destroyed by nuclear war and natural disasters,
    that all of the rest of humanity is impure and evil and about to be destroyed by nuclear war and natural disasters, and
    that these events are inescapable and unavoidable.
On the surface, the BK might be putting on an act of being "peaceful", polite, cheerful, "royal" (they love the idea of aristocracy) but, under the surface, their will to live, their ability to make good plans for the future, their independence is being eroded away by this until they end up as unpaid slaves and financiers of the Brahma Kumari Sisters who - as with examples given above - present themselves not just as the *only ones* and the *only path* with a cure ... but, indeed, the *cause* of these events they called Vinash or Destruction.

To outsiders, they dishonestly call it "Transformation" and avoid saying just how the world is going to be "transformed" from 7 billion human beings, to just 900,000 human beings by 2036. Or how it happens again and again *identically* every 5,000 years. This 5,000 years (cycle) meme is constantly used by them ... which must go against your Father's rational, scientific mind (*Everything repeats identically every 5,000 years).

2036 is such a short time away, and they are likely encouraging him to believe the world is going to become worse and worse beforehand, there is a risk he will become trapped in gambling years of his life away, "just in case", by which time he will be fully indoctrinated and dependent upon them, and cut off from friends, family and workmates.

This is what they did to us in the 1970s and 1980s, and what they did to others in the 1930s and 1940s, and the 1990s and 2000s. It's just what they do. They predicted the End of the World in WWII, 1950, 1976, 1986, 1986 to 1996, Year 2000, 2012 (I think the last it was) ... I don't know what they are currently speculating but it's always just "two to three years" away. Short enough to sucker people in, long enough away that they will forget once they are in.

Then, everyday, every contact, like water dripping on a stone, they remind adherents of this, to them, unavoidable "fact".

Once you believe, anything can be cut away and detached from, given up, thrown away ... the rest of life except BKism becomes futile, pointless, an irritation. They end up just staring at a picture of their guru Lekhraj Kirpalani for hours each day believing that by doing so they are burning away their bad karma.
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Prerna

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post01 Nov 2018

This is really crazy. They talk about Karma and what about their own. The more I am understanding about them the more fire is burning in my heart to snatch away my Father from them and do my part in damaging their image and saving families like my own from them. May they rot in hell.

I am determined to bring my Father back. One step at a time I will expose them. At least starting with my local area centers. Once my Father trusts us again, I will take help of my friends who are working in media and at least give the BK centers in my area some headache.

How did you recover? When was your realization and how did it struck you that you are being under bad influence and under some evil control? Did your family help you?
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ex-l

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post01 Nov 2018

Prerna wrote:How did you recover? When was your realization and how did it struck you that you are being under bad influence and under some evil control? Did your family help you?

I left long before the internet. There was no help, no information, no exposés of their wrong doings, no research into their historical revisions and covers or crimes etc, no therapists or anything. It was difficult and took a long time ... and, I suspect, it is still that way for most Indians. You are luck we are at least here to share and so much work has been done on them.

It is true to say I not only destroyed my career and education, my social life but I was trapped for about 10 years - not progressing - in a mental prison based on not quite the fear of "Destruction" but a sort of nihilistic hopeless caused by the thought normal life was somewhere between entirely futile and negative (that is what they teach).

Indeed, it was only coming back to review BKism decades later, learning about all their money/business corruption, and doing important research into their early history that really opened my eyes to them. It is strange but not even hearing about the child sex abuse cover up, nor the suicides of a beautiful and talented young woman and her Brother I knew within the cult really shocked me ... I was so conditioned by them to accept those.

It was waking up to and learning about their double standards, classist (caste), money and power grabbing that finally did it.

Please, though, let me address one thing first. I think Pink (above) and I disagree about one thing and it is the question of whether there are such things as "spirits" and "psychic" influences. Now, clearly within BKism there is. BKism is full of references to spirits and spirit influences both literally (dead or disembodied human beings) and metaphorically ("vices" as "evil spirits"). I chose to accept what BKism teaches and work within it.

BKism teaches their god spirit and deceased leaders still exist in a bodiless state but with the capacity to influence and overpower followers, also that its living leaders have the power to travel about in a bodiless state and overwhelm or influence followers at a distance. Also that there are ghosts and bad spirits influencing people that, again, they have the power to cure.

Your Father if he does not already believe in this, will be being encourage to believe it, then - as a self-fulfilling prophecy - will become susceptible to such suggestions. He will, for example, start to believe he is being guided, inspired and controlled by the BK god spirit (they call it "touchings").

Now, the chances of all that being true - as said - is very small ... but it is something that we hear of, or people report feeling, arises again and again. And, ultimately, it is something that no one can say is or is not true ... so it remains a possibility for me. I cannot say that it is *literally* disembodied spirits - this idea is not acceptable to modern science, but I would go as far as to say it affects people as if it was.

It could just be the BKs "group energy" acting upon individuals, it could just be neurotic psychological projection, it could be all three. No one can tell ... but we need a working theory to progress, and we need to work within the BK mindset to confront or address them, we need to understand BKism as they teach it, so we need to accept and use their ideas.

Is their god spirit real? Are their living or deceased leaders directly influencing followers and their families? I cannot tell ... but I can say it certain feels as if it is that way.

For me, it was the social climbing and vulgar stupidity of their top leaders (Dadi Janki mostly), and the expectancy that we all bow and compromise to her/them that finally woke me up. Their conceit ... their perpetual self-advertising and social climbing instead of actually serving humanity. It repelled me. But if someone shares those values, eg social climbing and feeling important by knowing famous people, then it will take longer for them to free themselves because BKism feeds it and offers a platform for egotism (the opposite of real spirituality).

I was young and fooled by their false advertising.

Now, like your Father, BKism appears to attract more older people, eg mid-life crisis or retirees looking for something to do types. And, of course, their core membership ... women who are sick of their husbands or don't want to get married. We were of the "spiritual seekers" generation. Now they seem to attract middle management, business and administration types. Bizarre ... (but better paid for more donations).

What we can do now if pile up evidence upon evidence beyond any doubt that raise serious questions about the probity of their god spirit and their leaders, and ask the question, "If this was really 'God come on Earth' (which is what they claim), would he really allow and accept all of this?".

Unfortunately, we've found it is quite difficult to wake people up again ... that they desire to return to normality and the real world has to come from within them. But I think we can really dent or puncture their delusion ... and, yes, attacking the BKs and the local centre (not your loved one) with bad PR, and attacking their financial income, is the quickest way to get them to respond.

Not have real jobs of their own to live off, there is nothing more vulnerable to the BK Sisters than their bogus PR facade and financial income through donations. If you can get media stories published exposing them, you would be doing a good thing.
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Pink Panther

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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

Post02 Nov 2018

Dear Prerna,

As ex-l said, when someone is in the grip of a delusion, logic and reason is rarely effective. Consider all the different beliefs people have. If logic was the key, they’d all convert to the most logical one.

Although its true that more and more people are accepting scientific and rational thinking, religions still can exploit the fact (ironic!) that feelings and experiences are subjective and are not of the realm of objective science.

I believe the key is to appeal to his deeper motives. No-one can do the work for you here, to write a treatise that he will accept. There is no single "silver bullet” or magic formula.

He needs to work through the process but how you can help him go through faster to emerge on the other side is to remind him of his motives and to do what he surely taught you all as children, not to believe everything you hear.

For me, I joined the BKs seeking ”self-realisation”. I was young and foolish, but I enjoyed the company and the experiences in meditation. What I think made it hard to leave was ”inertia” - I continued following that same belief system for a long time and it is hard to change things that become habituated.

So, when there is initial "zeal" of a new convert (more on this later) it is hard to affect them. And when they are in the same patterns for a long time, it is hard too. There is a sweet spot, a moment that you need to be patient for, and to help your Father spot the door that leads out of this psychological maze that has entranced your Father.

In the old myths and legends (which teach us about life), people would enter the ”land of faery” and they would not emerge for years. There is usually a catalyst somewhere in the story .

What enabled me to see what I needed to do, to be able to move on in my life?

Firstly, I had previously had good meditation experiences before I met the BKs, so at the back of my mind I knew BKs were not the sole trade proprietary owners of deep experiences.

Secondly, I was always of a curious and inquiring mind and, even as a BK, I always kept reading and learning from a wider source of wisdom than just BKs, I read philosophy, comparative religion, history, science, psychology, the things I had always been interested in. The difference between a BK and a free thinker is that a BK reads this stuff and looks only for those things that confirm the BK point of view - called confirmational bias and "cherry picking”, i.e. being selective and ignoring the validity of anything that may change your prejudices. A free thinker takes all valid facts and information and arguments into account.

A free thinker is circumspect, aware that one's own interpretation of reality of truth is provisional, that truth itself is provisional. That a thing is not "so" just because someone claims it is so based on authority. That whoever I place my faith in regarding uncertain things may not be who I think they are, or may be also subject to error. That a subjective view never replaces an objective undeniable fact.

This is a key thing for shifting a person's mind. Any humble person must accept that Truth is provisional, or at the very least, their own understanding of it is provisional. No one learns anything unless they accept their current view is provisional and able to be improved upon. Ask your Father to be as critical and analytical of anything the BKs say as he would be of any other preacher, salesman or politician. (Is it really only your product that cleans my sheets whiter than white, when the active ingredient is actually common soap and bleach? Do I have to sign up for the whole package at a huge cost when all I really need is this part of it?)

Thirdly, I was able to replace (substitute) the cohesive theory of life that the BKs indoctrinate each other with. You cannot remove something that fills a need for a person and leave that need unfulfilled. So in the case of having a philosophy or paradigm to live by, the BK one was becoming increasingly inadequate and unfulfilling, so I trusted myself and began adopting new approaches to life based on Buddhism, martial arts, psychology and objective scepticism. Its funny but when the new diet is more satisfying than the old one, you change your diet happily and voluntarily.

Now to the zeal of the convert.

There’s a phenomenon that happens when someone buys into something - it's like they identify with it, be it product or personality or music or insurance policy, e.g after much research, a person buys a certain brand of phone or car . They are happy that they made the ‘best' choice. They tell their friends "this is the best model or plan, you too should get it” ... At this stage you cannot tell them "you made a mistake, you have invested unwisely” or "the cost is too much and the product is not as flexible as advertised, you are locked in”. Maybe after a few years they will realise that it also has a downside. or that the terms and conditions have been changed and there's nothing they can do about it.

As you get involved with the BKs, the T&C change.

The BK trick is exactly that. Get the person to come along with words of ”free - donation only", come whenever you have time etc. And they provide you with the ”beginner version” of their product. Then after using the product they realise there are things missing, it is not the full ”professional” version. They are then hinted that that their meditation could be even better, deeper, stronger, that there are some inner mysteries etc but they need to prove themselves in some way, attend more regularly or promise to follow a new rule to become worthy (pure enough) etc.

All bullsh** of course.

They gradually spend more time with this group and eventually identify as a BK before any other group identity. They will say, ”Oh no, I am not a BK first, I am a soul. The BK is only a role in this Confluence Age” - but that is exactly the script of the BK!

Leave your angry vengefulness for this forum. Remain calm and patient with your Father.

You need to continue to not argue. That only makes the other person defensive and closes them up.

Merely be a guide. Imagine your Father has had a car accident and injured his head. He is delusional, or has forgotten much. To be a healer, gently ask questions only, do not ”state" answers or truths which conflict with his. Remind him of how to be a critical thinker as a teacher would a student. Talk about wider subjects he has had long interests in.

Help him find his own answers. You can tell people things again and again but it is only when they realise it for themselves do they actually understand. (They think they discovered it - but isn’t is so that we all discover what others already know right throughout our lives?).

Patience. And more patience.
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