Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post13 Jan 2019

Rajdhani wrote:I vividly remember a Senior Sister who was/is head/in-charge of a zone (3 to 5 districts in an Indian state) expressing irritation about an aged lady who had donated acres of land to the Brahma Kumaris.

Sorry, I missed something. Why was she irritated about the donation?
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Rajdhani

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post13 Jan 2019

Well, I happened to be in the place where this Senior Sister was having a talk/chat with other surrendered Sisters and Brothers on preparations for some function.

This Sister was mildly upset about the lady about a few aspects, which I am not able to recall now. This was not about any demands or anything from the donor lady, it was purely and irritation for just having this donor lady around the campus.

The point I was trying to make is this Senior Sister wouldn't have dared to talk so lightly about the donor lady in the open; secondly, this was a mild shocker for me that the most experienced and senior angels are not so angels.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post13 Jan 2019

Thank you for explaining.

This only goes to show once more how, when it comes down to it, their concerns are not for others but for themselves and their positions in their organisation.

One of the things that informed my decision to leave the BKs was when, in a ”service” meeting, a single mum who gave many years of time and energy and what money she could when she could, and, unlike the rich donor who must not be offended, was told bluntly to her face that her views should not be considered and were unwelcome, that she shouldn't even be there because she was not gong to be a major financial donor to that project ( even though she was most likely to be the one to sweep and wash up at events etc).

When we become BKs we are asked to adopt a whole new way of evaluating things; ”Baba is responsible” - "It's Drama” etc.

It takes a few of these moments, growing awareness to see what’s really going on plus other gradual shifts in how we calibrate our values, what is and is not forgivable in BKs. Then one day we wake up realising, "This is bullsh**”.
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ex-l

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post13 Jan 2019

... And fairly nasty bullsh** too.

The point I take from Rajdhani is how shallow and two faced they really are; and, for me, "spiritually evolved" people should not be two faced.

In short, what Senior Sister was saying was that the lady's money was fine but she was not.

I am remembering another story documented on this forum of a very rich Sindhi/Indian woman who donated a huge sum to the BKs - it was a very large sum, perhaps all she had - and how while they were seducing her, she got lots of special attention from the Dadis and so on. But once they got their hands on her money and/or property she was basically ignored and left to sort of wonder around the London centre no one having much interest in her ... because the truth was, she wasn't that clever or enlightened, wasn't suitable for VIP service, she was really just a sort of "Bhagat soul" (... that very worst of BK insults; a "Bhagat soul" being night and day different and lower to they, the "Knowledgeful souls").

She thought the love and attention were how things were forever but once they got her money, she was just knocked down to being an ordinary BKs. A grunt* in the Shivshakti Army.

Yes, it is true, I think many of us reach a point where we see through the facade and ritual - the emptiness of their "showing respect" - to what lies behind it.

What concerns me is how are are made to feel - the exclusions, the subtle condescensions, the value system debased by financial interests - but become acclimatised to it and accept it.

Thankfully, I am very proud to say that no one who has come this far, to this forum, willingly became part of that system. I think though, if we are honest, we would have to admit for a little while we went along with it a bit ... how we were being moulded into being a Kirpalani.

I am thinking of a class of Dadi janki Kirpalani's, translated by Sister jayanti Kirpalani, where she joked how they advertise that "everything is free" and then they ended up taking everything ... and she laughed about, and the class laughed along with her about. How "funny" it was how "Baba" got everything - all of their material possession and free labour - when an individuals became brainwashed and surrendered to them.

Looking back, I think how naive and irresponsible we we were to have gone along with it and how mystified I am at how they managed to turn out heads to quickly and so well.

Thankfully, again, I never became "elavated" enough within their system to have to be responsible for sucking money, property and free labour out of people in the way centres-in-charges are and so my karma is relatively clean in that department. I did, however, suck others into the system to be abused and misled by it. I think only one remains; and remains on my conscience.

I realise that, especially as young people, our love, our charm, our enthusiasm, whatever intelligence we had - even our appearance - was exploited by them to be bait to hook newcomers in, and keep them in until they were fully enculturated. For elder converts, it would be a diferent equation.

(* a "grunt" is a derrogatory term for the lowest ranking soldiers who are forced to do all the dumbest, unineresting, dirty work).
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Rajdhani

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post15 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:I realise that, especially as young people, our love, our charm, our enthusiasm, whatever intelligence we had - even our appearance ...

In most promotional videos, they make it a point to include clips of "Double Foreigners" liberally. This is to cash in on the general belief with most Indians that foreigners are more intelligent and if they have accepted, then there must be something very true.

In corporate sales, selling with noble purpose is a recent trend where in the sales team are made to charge up and genuinely believe what they are selling (products or services) will help their customers succeed and, indirectly, make this world a better place owing to contribution to the economy in whatever capacity. Basically, this sense of contentment pumps in a great deal of perseverance to those sales people who are somewhat lost.

Looks like the BKs have mastered this art decades ago and released/releasing an army of people to go sell BKism to the general public and get huge revenues too! :shock:
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ex-l

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post22 Jan 2019

Rajdhani wrote:In most promotional videos, they make it a point to include clips of "Double Foreigners" liberally. This is to cash in on the general belief with most Indians that foreigners are more intelligent and if they have accepted, then there must be something very true.

This is true ... they've been doing it since the first Westerners joined up. Usually exaggerating (lying) about their status too.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post22 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote: But once they got their hands on her money and/or property she was basically ignored and left to sort of wonder around the London centre no one having much interest in her ... because the truth was, she wasn't that clever or enlightened,

Well, that makes sense. Would a clever and enlightened person donate large amounts to such a group? A clever and enlightened person would at least do their ”due diligence” and investigate the potential recipient of their charity. They would find this web site and read some of the truths that people who know the wolf under the sheep’s shawl, or indeed, were part of that wolf pack for a while.

Speaking for myself and probably for some others, you have to be a certain kind of ”needy” to fall for what the BKs are peddling. They benefitted from many years I gave, a lot of time and energy, although not quite so much money as I had not developed that side of my life having gotten involved so young, immature. I was clever but unenlightened, a combination described as "too clever for one's own good".

I am still catching up financially, emotionally etc but, to be fair, some hard spiritual life lessons were learnt.
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EricCartman

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post23 Jan 2019

I'll attempt to summarize the video link:

The speaker is Shyam Manav. This is is channel: Shyam Manav. He founded an organization in India that seeks to counter superstition in Indian society.

The question was from a anonymous BK practitioner.
Question: Been a part of the BKs for about 25 years, have been going to Mt Abu. God Shankar (not Shiva, not sure if the names were mixed up) and Brahma used to enter into Lekhraj Kirpalani's body and later, after 1969 have been entering the body of a Senior Sister until 2017, when she got too unwell for it to continue. I have personally witnessed this. How then do you claim that God does not enter human bodies.

Response: I understand the state of mind of a believer very well, I used to be one. We are so fervent in our belief that X fact is true that we are unable to accept any other explanation. I have learned about many other such "Baba's" that had god enter them, variety of devi's, even sai Baba etc. In an overwhelming majority of cases (over 80%) its just fraud. In some others, it's a case of suggestion induced delusion or a hallucination and in some others its mental illness. God does not enter people.

It takes enormous courage to admit not just that you got snookered into something but that so much of your identity and who you are now (motivational speaker, event organizer, well known NGO person etc ...) is tied to a falsehood.

Many people choose to do the stuff ex-l, Pink et al have mentioned elsewhere ... BK lite: New Age'y sounding stuff, "executive discussions", retreats etc. For many, its too late in life to start again, so they have to make the best of a bad situation.

"Surf the waves of change and try to stay on top", as one BK speaker put it.
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ex-l

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post23 Jan 2019

For me, what that question underlines is, is that many Indian BKs don't get BKism at all. That it is all just an extension of Bhakti, or a stripped down "Bhakti Lite" to use the phrase you did. That the BKs' Shiva is, to them, one and the same as a Bhakti Shiva.

There is a general air of condescension to such souls within BKism ... "Bhagat souls", Silver Aged souls etc. The leaders know they don't get it but are happy to keep stringing them along.

Of course, the BKs play similar ambiguities on Westeners with their post-Christian talk of "The One", "The Light" etc ... when they really mean, 'their one' or 'their light'.

I've never had clarified the real truth when it comes to how and why they introduced a God Shiva post 1955. (There was no mention of Shiva until 1956 or later at all in the religion).

I think it was just borrowed from Hinduism and more re-marketing. They wore out a corporal God Brahma and he failed, so they introduced an incorporal God Shiva instead.
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oldbk

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post23 Jan 2019

I don't think anyone in the BK organization (not 100%, of course), has any serious or real adherence to the original definitions. The transition to Bhakti style is an advanced stage.

Examples, celebrating many Indian religious festivals with pomp and costumes to bring to mind the Bhakti side. Not to leave the Westerners far behind, the Christmas celebrations with Santa Claus, Santa caps. And all these pomp and show must/DO include huge cake cutting. Highlight this with stuffing them into each other's mouth, while the lowlife (aka lowly Bakths) keep looking with yearning.

In a recent video, 100th birthday/Karuna birthday, a small girl was in the front row looking at these people merrily stuffing the cake into each other's mouth. Could see the childish longing for a piece in that poor child's face.

And these are the Souls that are supposed to be satisfied with DHO ROTI AND DHAL! How sickening!
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ex-l

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post23 Jan 2019

oldbk wrote:... these people merrily stuffing the cake into each other's mouth. Could see the childish longing for a piece in that poor child's face.

I can imagine it. And they do it every other week.

Yes, I know a lot of Western BKs were put off by the way the "Seniors" monopolised the stage despite having spent their lives with Lekhraj Kirpalani, and the vulgarity and artless insensitivity of it all, eg elbows jostling each other and pulling the microphone away from "BapDada" mid-flow.

I would have to ask "why?". What was the purpose to such an act? If their Yoga and perfection was so high, shouldn't they stand back and let someone else have a go?

I would.

For me, much of the game is about showing off how important they are, reaffirming their importance by association to VIPs, politicians and their god spirit. It is all about, "look at us".

I think the cake stuffing stuff is also about indulging in their memory of Lekhraj Kirpalani feeding them in the same way, acting out their childhood memories perhaps? As the Thursday morning "nectar" pouring was.
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Rajdhani

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post24 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:I would have to ask "why?". What was the purpose to such an act? If their Yoga and perfection was so high, shouldn't they stand back and let someone else have a go?

This has crossed my mind too.

I remember old timers saying BapDada used to spend hours together with them in the 80s. Even if they do not let the regular BKs, as part of the grooming, they could have let the teachers who are also key people contributors on stage.

Like you rightly said, it is all about the power. The organization's attitude and way of functioning does not match to the imminent destruction.

Now that Baba is not coming these days, we will have to see whether the sheen will fade away over time or Baba will start coming on some new person and continue the show. They are actually covering the empty part (backside) of the hall with a screen or makeshift enclosure if less people turn out on a particular date of the season.
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ex-l

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post24 Jan 2019

Rajdhani wrote:They are actually covering the empty part (backside) of the hall with a screen or makeshift enclosure if less people turn out on a particular date of the season.

Oh ... so it "looks good" for the video cameras streaming on the internet.

Says it all really.

The bottomline is, the original BK Sindhis were really not that classy and not truly spiritual at all, Lekhraj Kirpalani included. They were materialistic, and all about show ... and that remains within the organisation's genes (meme) until this day.

Really classy and really spiritual people are attracted to BKism due to their use of pre-existing terminology, and stick around for a while trying to help, trying to influence the movement ... they are milked for time, money, energy and ideas ... and then they leave.

They have to leave because the path of BKism and the path of true spirituality are divergent. At some point, if you have intelligence, sensitivity, or care ... you have to leave because you realise that they are never going to change.

Their core vision, their core ideal is replacing those early days when Lekhraj Kirpalani was throwing away his money on them, when they had no cares in the world, when they lived in relative luxury (in comparison to the rest of India) and when they had no one questioning or critiising (critiquing) what they were doing.

People might feel a little sad at leaving, say, friends within BKism ... but they should realise they are doing the right and enevitable thing *if* they want to find and follow a more spiritual life. Personally, for me, it was a *huge* relief to be free of them limiting and controlling my life (... although it took many years for me to recover and get over "Destruction Consciousness").

Some ex-BKs, the PBKs, theorise that Lekhraj Kirpalani has incurred a large karmic account for misleading his followers and that he has had to stick around in "spook form" to try and repay and re-direct them ... or one could ask whether his "spook form" was just attached to his role and position and could not fully let go to fully move on after death. That is was still feeding off the movement's energy.

I cannot say. One cannot say anything for sure as regards spiritualism. Even if we use a psychological ideas, like collective consciousness, memes or egregores - that are not fully accepted scientifically - the theory would still work. They could just be projecting and pumping up a fake phenomenon. Many BK have felt for a long time that Gulzar was just faking or was deluded.

And now she's finally lost her marbles ...

I wonder if she and they still thinks "god" is coming inside her? Things have been very quiet about her.

I suppose they've made up an excuse to cover for that too ... like "she paid off her bad karma", or "Baba's enegy was so 'pure' that it has fried her brain" etc?

I would have thought that if it was truly god coming inside, that her body would have been "transformed" and healed ... oh, but their excuse for that is, "Baba does not heal, Baba cannot change Drama" ... blah blah blah.

They've always got an excuse for everything.
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Rajdhani

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post24 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:The bottomline is, the original BK Sindhis were really not that classy and not truly spiritual at all, Lekhraj Kirpalani included. They were materialistic, and all about show ... and that remains within the organisation's genes (meme) until this day.

Really classy and really spiritual people are attracted to BKism due to their use of pre-existing terminology, and stick around for a while trying to help, trying to influence the movement ... they are milked for time, money, energy and ideas ... and then they leave.

They have conveniently cashed in on this aspect too.

Old timers and teachers used to say Shiv Baba wanted to impact the society in a big way and there was a reason to dawn on the person (Brahma Baba) most elite community because this is a disruptive approach and the likes.
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oldbk

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post24 Jan 2019

The decorations and the costumes really makes them look like buffoons. Don't see where the Golden Age deity-like look is supposed to come from. Noticed that on the 100th birthday celebration (in absentia), there was a huge rose garland presented to another BK Sister (Ishu). Now this rose garland was so big that it had to be carried by 4 BKs. Ironically, it never touched BK Ishu. If it had, would have suffocated her right there, for it was so heavy.

cannot these sickos see how they are behaving in pomp and splendor, sure they can ... But it is now so ingrained in them, that anything goes. And there is always a crowd to cheer that. We see that in ALL other such groups/cults.

Another instance, where we can see that BK organization (upper echleon) is just capitalizing on people's weakness, ignorance, fear etc and living a luxurious life. One shouldn't wonder then, why some of these Souls suffer so much through their body, before leaving the body. Now, that is Karma for sure.
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