Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

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GuptaRati 6666

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Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post07 Feb 2020

arvind.giri wrote:Please don't take it personally. Ego is a disease and almost all of us are under it's influence. This disease affects our objectivity and ability to see the truth as it is (depending on how much influenced we are).

Hello Arvind.Giri,

The BKs aversion to ego is just plain wrong. We all have a healthy ego, which sustains us all, even on the spiritual path. The BKs need to clearly delineate an authentic and positive ego from the ego of the shadow self. The latter can be destructive and masking to truth, authentic truth. Even the Dali Lama acknowledges the positive and authentic ego; why not the BKs? May be their acknowledgement of a positive ego is respected in their select groups.
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ex-l

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Re: Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post08 Feb 2020

Do they even clearly definite what they mean by "ego" ?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post09 Feb 2020

The Brahma Kumaris encourage what they call ”pure ego” which is twofold ”I am a soul” and ”I am a Brahma Kumar/Kumari”

At no time does this so-called ”spiritual" university bother to examine what ego is or how it functions, what are its dynamics, etc.

The BK teachings are to simply swap one ego-construct for another. Note that "ahamkara" literally breaks down to mean ”the I am that I have created”.

There is no insight into the complex psychodynamics that are part of any person, it's simply "do this, think this, trust us".
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arvind.giri

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Re: Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post10 Feb 2020

The BKs aversion to ego is just plain wrong. We all have a healthy ego, which sustains us all, even on the spiritual path. The BKs need to clearly delineate an authentic and positive ego from the ego of the shadow self. The latter can be destructive and masking to truth, authentic truth. Even the Dali Lama acknowledges the positive and authentic ego; why not the BKs? May be their acknowledgement of a positive ego is respected in their select groups.

Hmmmm ... Possibly it is a difference of terminology. In the BK centres around my area, the term sw-maan (स्व-मान/self respect) is used for pure/healthy ego, while ego by default is taken in negative sense. Though very few times I have heard the term 'pure ego' (शुध अहंकार) but in that case extra stress was put in word 'pure' to dilute negative sense of ego.

Personally I feel that difference of terms should not be an issue, as long as people are able to reach to same essence (feeling). Hope you agree.

As per the definition shared by you, above references from me about word 'ego' were in context of 'negative ego' and yes 'positive ego' is good for all.
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arvind.giri

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Re: Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post10 Feb 2020

Do they even clearly definite what they mean by "ego" ?

Agree that there is no single literal definition which is used word by word across BKs. But we get lot of cautions in Murli about the context specific symptoms of 'ego' which I feel is equally (sometimes more) effective.

Here are few examples (Sorry for Hindi version due to shortage of time):
- और अभिमान अनेक प्रकार का आता है-अपने बुद्धि का अभिमान, अपने श्रेष्ठ संस्कार का अभिमान, अपने अच्छे स्वभाव का अभिमान, अपनी विशेषताओं का अभिमान, अपनी कोई विशेष कला का अभिमान, अपनी सेवा की सफलता का अभिमान। (23-12-1994)

- रूहानियत में अभिमान नहीं होता है। स्वमान होता है। स्वमान अर्थात् स्व-आत्मा का मान। स्वमान और अभिमान दोनों में अन्तर है। तो सदा स्वमान की सीट पर स्थित रहो। अभिमान की सीट छोड़ दो। अभिमान की सीट ऊपर से बड़ी सजी-सजाई है। देखने में आरामपसन्द, दिलपसन्द है लेकिन अन्दर काँटो की सीट है। यह अभिमान की सीट ऐसे ही समझो जैसे कहावत है – खाओ तो भी पछताओ और न खाओ तो भी पछताओ। एक दो को देख सोचते हैं कि हम भी टेस्ट कर लें। फलाने-फलाने ने अनुभव किया, हम भी क्यों नहीं करें। तो छोड़ भी नहीं सकते और जब बैठते हैं तो काँटे तो लगने ही हैं। तो ऐसे बाहर से दिखावटी, धोखा देने वाली अभिमान की सीट पर कभी भी बैठने का प्रयत्न नहीं करो। स्वमान की सीट पर सदा सुखी, सदा श्रेष्ठ, सदा सर्व प्राप्ति-स्वरूप का अनुभव करो (19-10-1981)

- कई प्रकार के तनाव हैं, तनाव का आधार है – ‘मैं-पन’। मैंने यह किया। मैं यह कर सकती हूँ! मैं ही करूँगा! यह जो मैं-पन है यह तनाव पैदा करता है। ‘‘मैं’’ यह देह अभिमान का है। एक है – मैं श्रेष्ठ आत्मा हूँ। एक है मैं फलानी हूँ, मैं समझदार हूँ, मैं योगी हूँ, मैं ज्ञानी हूँ। मैं सेवा में नम्बर आगे हूँ। यह मैं-पन तनाव पैदा करता है। अभिमान में नहीं आओ। लेकिन स्वमान में रहो (30-03-1985)

Sr. BK teachers share the crisp definition and explain elaborately on it in classes related to this topic. (In short, ego is explained as soul's attachment to a false image of itself).
There is no insight into the complex psychodynamics that are part of any person, it's simply "do this, think this, trust us".

Agree with first part but not 100% with second. I think though partially true but it would not be 100% appropriate to say BK is only about "do this, think this, trust us".

Majority of the avayakt Murlis are around reflection and suggestions, and follow the format 'observations', 'reflect/introspect', and 'do this'/'think this'.

Probably what you are referring to, is 'dharna' (discipline). There I find BK in mind of blind faith and following 100% logic. I follow it, because for most of the 'dharnas' I understand logic behind them. That is why my mind has accepted these. Yes, for some dharnas, I don't understand the logic, but because of the benefits of dharnas which I could understand logically, my mind has developed a faith in general.

Kindly feel free to correct me if I am not getting your point accurately.

[PS: I'll be little busy for next 1-2 weeks. Please expect delays in reply]
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Pink Panther

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Re: Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post10 Feb 2020

arvind.giri wrote:Sr. BK teachers share the crisp definition and explain elaborately on it in classes related to this topic. (In short, ego is explained as soul's attachment to a false image of itself).

As soon as the word ”I” is spoken or even comes into mind, that is the ego.

There is no more self-contradictory statement than to say ”I have no ego”.

Even if we look at this in the negative way ( the via negativa), as soon as I carry a thought of what is not me, what I am not, what is left is a concept of myself. That is, "ego”. As long as there is duality there is ego.

Ahankaar - the constructed self-conception (conceit).

Every image of the self is false. No thing is the same as the concept or image of the thing.

Ego is a provisional conceptual tool for operating in the world. To pretend you are conquering it is the most sublime arrogance (or ignorance, or both).
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ex-l

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Re: Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post10 Feb 2020

Pink Panther wrote:There is no more self-contradictory statement than to say ”I have no ego”.

How about if the soul says, ”the ego has no I”?

That was another habit they used to have, addressing oneself as "the soul". Instead of saying, eg, "I like white rice", they would say, "the soul likes white rice", as if it excluded them from having any ego.

I don't know, such discussions just leave me feeling that BKs tend to use words that they have no idea what they mean, or even if the other BKs they are talking to are using them with the same meaning.

It's all just about making plausible sounding quasi-spiritual noises to serve their greater interests, while allow sufficient vagaries to provoke discussion but allow for accommodation of various ideas.

And, of course, the traditional essentially forbids anyone from developing a better, more accurate concept ... because if their god spirit did not say it, then it has no value.

Which reminds me, I take it their god spirit has not turned up this year and has not made any new utterances? Hence the entire religion is bound within what it said in the past? As in, no new ideas, only new marketing strategies?
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Re: Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post11 Feb 2020

I fully agree with those comments ex-l .

The BK organisation as a whole has been continually struggling for relevance and identity, at least since Lekhraj died in 1969 but even before that, as they tried to find a body of knowledge that was their own which would prove accurate and consistent.

Despite their disapproval of Darwinian ideas of evolution, the BKs have been forced - by actual events - to evolve their theories (Gyan) and their collective ego (identity) to survive.

Today’s BKWSU is definitely a product of mutations over a few generations from when ”God” first realised he was Dada Lekhraj and founded the Om Mandli to be the instrument for ”World Renewal”!!!

The ego of each BK is his/her own and their view of what the organisation represents is also their own, as you say ex-l "making plausible sounding quasi-spiritual noises to serve their greater interests, while allow sufficient vagaries to provoke discussion but allow for accommodation".

As long as lip service is paid to the jargon and there’s bums on seats, the species can propogate itself enough to survive. :D
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because.parmeshwar

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Re: Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post12 Feb 2020

arvind.giri does not seems to be pukka BK because he goes on arguing and arguing. Baba’s Shrimat clearly says that you not need to argue anyone and many times it comes in headlines of Murli

Secondly regarding rape case, why does arvind.giri not become sakshi as he clearly know that "it’s her part" and the soul is destined to face such situation ... Nothing New.

BKs, on one hand, try to pretend that they are most merciful souls in the world and at the same time they become merciless and prove themselves to be completely detached from the worldly matters ...

If BKism is truly and sincerely followed then the individual has to be sex-less, speechless, emotionless, and moreover don’t have any right to comment on any damn situation (typical sakshi bhav of BKs) no matter what happens. Which I am sure is totally impractical. BKism is just hotch-potch type system where the opinion changes with time and circumstances. They say it’s right because I am saying so ... (not even Murlis). This is the most egoistic.
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ex-l

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Re: Brahma Kumaris concept of ego

Post12 Feb 2020

because.parmeshwar wrote:BKs, on one hand, try to pretend that they are most merciful souls in the world and at the same time they become merciless ... BKism is just hotch-potch type system where ... [t]hey say it’s right because I am saying so ...

Accepted.

They are only the "most merciful souls" subject to their definition of what being merciful is ... which is being a BK and doing BK Yoga ... just as they are only the "most knowledgeable souls" subject to their definition of what knowledge is. Like you say, it’s right because they say so.

Yes, they are the ultimate victim blamers, even if you get raped by another BK, it was your own fault and you will suffer it every 5,000 years for eternity. It's insanity.

I suspect the problem with the idea is simple, Lekhraj Kirpalani or whoever did not think about the consequences at the time he thought of it. It's not a real truth, it's just a device, a strategy, to manipulate people and get them not to do stuff.

What always strikes me, when such a serious case arises, it how silent the BKs go. It's like they go into denial and just dissociate from the situation/the world. "Baba says, not a hair on your head will be touched" in the Murlis ... and yet such events keep on happening, which is why we keep documenting them to show them the reality of the cult.

Is the accused BK defending himself on the basis that they were having a relationship?

Has he been thrown out of the BKWSU?

And what of the girl? 26 year old BK then rape victim ... won't do much for her marriage prospects.

Is the BKWSU in any way responsible, or is it just the man's fault?

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