Original picture of Tree with "The 8"

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bansy

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Original picture of Tree with "The 8"

Post15 Jan 2007

In the English book is "A Unique Experience. Autobiography of Dada Vishwa Ratan, ("Ek Anokha Anubhav" in Hindi) it is explained how Dada Vishwa Ratan was assigned to draw the 4 pictures - Kalpa Tree, Timurti, Wheel Drama, Ladder.

The Kalpa Tree : This was the first to be done.
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Brahma Baba instructed Dada to draw the faces of Gandhi, Jinna in the leaves of The Tree, and Stalin and Harry S. Truman at the top of The Tree. Brahma Baba instructed Dada to draw Brahma Baba at the roots, and when Dada completed it and returned to show Brahma Baba, Baba replied "Yes, it is correct".

Brahma Baba then told Dada to draw the following 8 next to Brahma Baba and Mama : Didi Man Mohini, Dadi Prakashmani, Dada BrijIndra, Dadi Dhyani, Dadi Shantamani, Dadi Brijshanta, Dada Vishwa Kishore, and Dada Vishwa Ratan. 3 Dadis and 1 Dada on each side.

Dada Vishwa Ratan apparently used photos to copy from, and was in charge of painting the faces in detail. When the pictures were duplicated, Sisters helped him paint the rest of The Tree, but he was in charge of painting the faces in the duplicates. You may notice the clarity of the faces for above mentioned persons, but not so for the other people in The Tree who are "imaginary" faces.

Is this body conscious? The persons in the picture are symbolic. Would the painting have been better without the actual physical likeness of individuals, such as the generalisation for the image of Shankar, Vishnu, Buddha, Jesus etc. Could this initial error be the cause of having the actual likeness of human beings depicted in other pictures and murals to come.

The book later explains the production of the other pictures, but I haven't come to them yet. It is interesting to look back deeper at something after some time, and to look and study the paintings again, as instructed by the Murlis.

(PS : Lakshmi and Narayan does not get mentioned. Must have been done after).
(PS2 : Names have been quoted which have appeared in BK literature).
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amaranthine

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Post15 Jan 2007

So, no Dadi janki or Dadi Gulzar?

I guess Baba really means it when he says the numbers are not yet fixed!
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arjun

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Post15 Jan 2007

Sister Bansy wrote:Is this body conscious ? The persons in the picture are symbolic. Would the painting have been better without the actual physical likeness of individuals, such as the generalisation for the image of Shankar, Vishnu, Buddha, Jesus etc. Could this initial error be the cause of having the actual likeness of human beings depicted in other pictures and muriels to come.

It is not body consciousness. But just ignorance of the deeper meanings. When even in this season's (2006-07) Avyakt Vanis it has been said that it is not sure if the Dadis would be included in the rosary (I will try to quote the exact words if possible), then how could Brahma Baba be sure that the BKs depicted in the picture of World Tree would be included in the rosary of topmost 8 souls? Definitely it is only symbolic and the persons depicted in the picture need not necessarily be included in the rosary of topmost eight souls.

As per the Advanced Knowledge being given to the PBKs by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) the 10 Brahmin souls (including Mama and Baba) depicted to be sitting at the base of the World Tree are actually representatives of the 10 base/root-like souls of the 10 religions depicted in the stem and branches of the World Tree.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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bansy

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Post15 Jan 2007

I agree it is symbolic. However, it may have been preferable had symbolic figures been used without actual those of "living human persons" at the time instead ...

... But was it a mistake at the time? No, in my understanding. Because this is where I see where Father Shiva is indeed Supreme Soul to allow the pictures to stand as they did, since it would take the full whole Confluence Age for the souls to be purified. The four pictures were and are of huge significance, as it set the trend for service and teaching to the masses, and only over time will the correct souls begin to understand these pictures in the right context. According to BKs, the soul of Brahma Baba was and is complete, but according to Advanced Knowledge, the soul of Brahma Baba is still studying. But as Brahma Baba was not complete when these pictures were made, it is possible he (the soul of Brahma Baba) was unaware of the full signficance of them at the time.

However, Bhakti and guru worship still seems rife in the BKWSU by the depiction of large physical images of Brahma Baba and Mama, which are or derived from these original master paintings.

Now, there are the basic knowledge and the advanced knowledge (and maybe other subsects) interpretations of these pictures. Brahmins (BKs, PBKs, etc ) will look at them and understand them depending on their intellect, as that is their/my/your role.

Yes, some other poster(s) mentioned that there are already the "Living Pictures" so there is little need for these painted pictures. However, these pictures are a complete story of the entire Brahmin Family, and contains the overall History and Geography of the World.

(PS3 : Once again, I do not put any conjecture in whether the above named souls in my first post do not have the purity or right to be included in the pictures. It is what is written in the aforementioned autobiography. )
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bansy

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Post15 Jan 2007

Walks
-------

In the autobiography is said Baba and the children, all Brothers and Sisters, would go on strolls with Baba, but they all had to wear blue shorts and white tennis shoes, as instructed by Brahma Baba (only his shorts were white).

There are often seen some old pictures of the Yagya of the children wearing sports clothes.

This means bare arms and bare legs were exposed. Though it does not say the age of the children (I make a guess from early teens and 20s).

Can anyone recall Murli points/Shrimat as regards to dress ?
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worldpeace

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Post15 Jan 2007

I have a book .. don't remember the title..

Its something like "memoirs in pictures" ... It has a picture where Mama with Baba is seen in pants and shirt after a game of badminton. The book says Baba was very good at the game.

Its a nice book with many rare photos.
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ex-l

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Post15 Jan 2007

bansy wrote:Yes, some other poster(s) mentioned that there are already the "Living Pictures" so there is little need for these painted pictures. However, these pictures are a complete story of the entire Brahmin Family, and contains the overall History and Geography of the World.

We note that the main pictures are also being "revised" in many "revisions" for Western consumption. By which, of course, I mean the details are being edited out to save the BKs from embarrassments. Even such details as "5,000 years" from images of The Cycle, nevermind a few Dadis and Didis.

I don't know ... from having been "inside" I now have to extend myself right "outside" and ask the kind of questions that an outsider such as a psychologist or sociologist would do. This is not to challenge or refute the veracity. Indeed, if The Knowledge is "The Knowledge" then it should be proven by such inspection and to follow The Knowledge without inspection is merely another form of Bhakti.

My first question is, what did the founding family really think that they were doing up there is Mount Abu living off Lekhraj Kirpalani's money. Was Lekhraj Kirpalani really Trikaldarshi? What was going through their minds?

The PBK view is that anything and everything must have a 100% spiritual significance. Everything must have a reason and be true. In many ways, PBKs are an extreme fundimental reaction against the current trend of human led revisionism and pandering to the market places within the BKWSU. Human led by leadership and human led by the demands of the market place. There would seem to be no room at all within the PBK view that Lekhraj Kirpalani might just have gotten it wrong or been 'a little bit off his head'. Indeed, I find it difficult to square Lekhraj Kirpalani having "a child-like intellect" with Lekhraj Kirpalani being constantly 100% following the Unlimited Wisdom of the all accurate God.

Did he never just get it wrong? The evidence is that he did get it wrong. Often. And that he was pretty nuts at time. (Like 1976 or when he wrote letters to the King of England or sent expensive gifts with the messages on them ... did he really think the recipients would be interested?

So, back to the scene and the pictures. It strikes me that at the time, the community thought "this is it". 300 of us ... the end of the world ... sit and wait ... etc. And so within that context, the images simply had to be of those that were closest and most obedient to Lekhraj Kirpalani, positive examples and encouragement to the others. It is merely applying Ockham's Razor. In my opinion, there was a sort of vanity pervading within the Yagya about itself and its shinning stars; and little awareness about the great "out there" and the other 5 Billion souls in the world. Note, the pictures also had written on them that the world's population was 5 Billion.

    • When were the pictures started and when were they completed?
Again, I find the lack of documentation of the evolution of the ideas disappointing. What iconography did they use to begin with? How did it evolve? When and why did it change? When was it "completed"? etc. All we have is the magical presentation of ... bingo ... the complete image but, in fact, it has gone through many revisions. The Western BK Order also has its images that have had the Indianness of them airbrushed out along with such details as the Dadis and Didis, e.g. black and blond BKs painted in to suit the market.

    • How is this seen by the PBKs?
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arjun

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Post16 Jan 2007

I wrote:When even in this season's (2006-07) Avyakt Vanis it has been said that it is not sure if the Dadis would be included in the rosary (I will try to quote the exact words if possible), then how could Brahma Baba be sure that the BKs depicted in the picture of World Tree would be included in the rosary of topmost 8 souls?

Refer Avyakt Vani dated 31.10.06, page 3

"Only two numbers have been announced, of the Father and the mother. The third number of any Brother or Sister has not yet been announced. You might say that there is a lot of love for the Dadis; the Father too has a lot of love for the Dadis, but the numbers have not been announced ... So even new ones can now make up (time)."

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Original picture of Tree with "The 8"

Post05 Apr 2007

Can anyone identify the 8 painted on this original version of The Tree with no Shiva and a God Father Brahma on it? Click to enlarge;

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ex-l

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Post05 Apr 2007

Woah!

Right on ... count me amongst dem "Wild Science-Proud Christian Cats", Daddy-O!

Yeah. Let's get hip to the A-Tom bomb ... click to enlarge;

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ex-l

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Post05 Apr 2007

Proof That the Brahma-kumaris thought Brahma was God, as written out of their history.

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john

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Post05 Apr 2007

We've got to do something about this. Some action is needed.

The evidence is overwhelming. I, for one, would like an explaination from the BKSWU.
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bansy

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Post05 Apr 2007

With all this stuff, ex-l, you could put it all onto ebay and pocket a few million (hopefully not rupees but dollars). :P We'll never see it again until the next cycle of course !

There's one sitting wearing glasses. Anyone recognise him ?
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arjun

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Post05 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:Can anyone identify the 8 painted on this oriignal version of The Tree with no Shiva and a God Father Brahma on it?
Sister Bansy wrote:There's one sitting wearing glasses. Anyone recognise him ?

I cannot recognize all of them, but the one sitting wearing glasses is certainly Dada Vishwakishore. If you see his original photograph in any of the history books published by the BKs, you would be able to match.

ex-l, congratulations once again for unearthing another treasure. The later revised vesions of the above picture published during the time of Brahma Baba, which have been uploaded on this site contain the mention of Shiv at two places - one as part of the rosary of victory and second, as part of a scroll shown below Brahm, Vishnu as Saraswati and the roots. The transition from 'Infinite divine light' and 'Divine Father Prajapati God Brahma' to 'Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiv' needs to be explained by the BKWSU.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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arjun

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Post05 Apr 2007

John wrote:The evidence is overwhelming, I for one would like an explaination from the BKSWU.

I don't think you would get any reply. Even if they opt to give a reply, they may say that Baba has said in the Murlis that the pictures are subject to revision and correction. So, one should not feel surprised about it. Here is a Murli point which is related to the preparation of the picture of The Tree:

"Jhaad may bhi kitnaa clear hai. Baba nay kaisey saakshaatkaar karaye, fir chitra baith banvaaye hain. Baba nay hee saakshaatkaar karaaya aur fir correct bhi kiya. Kitnaa wonder hai. Saari nayi knowledge hai."

"It is so clear in the picture of The Tree also. How Baba caused divine visions and then He sat and got the pictures prepared. Baba Himself caused divine visions and then corrected them too. It is so wonderful. It is entirely a new knowledge." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 5.10.05, pg.2 published by the BKs in Hindi and narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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