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Lower Level Perception and Higher Level Perception
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bkry



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:12 am    Post subject: Lower Level Perception and Higher Level Perception

The terms which I have used for the title of this post is not something which is used by BKs. I have just used these terms for convenience.

Soon after having come into gyan, I had noticed that what I receive from God are of two kinds:

1. the first is where I am able to receive communications from God even if my stage is bad. This is what I refer to as the lower level perception from God.
2. the second is of the kind of communications which I can receive from God only if my stage is very good. This is "the touching and the catching" which God talks about in the murlis. God touches us and if our stage is good, we will be able to catch it.

However, during the past few years I had noticed that I can receive two different (and sometimes contradictory) instructions through the lower and higher level perceptions. The instructions/help given through the lower level perception are those which are based on our sanskaras and the sanskaras of those around us. However, the instructions/help given through the higher level perception usually involve an understanding, i.e we will have the ability to understand what God is saying/teaching and it may just be the understanding that we do not have to follow the instruction given to us through the lower level perception.

It is my view that even the statements in the murlis can be group into the "higher level" category and the "lower level" category.
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jamesy



Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:10 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
However, during the past few years I had noticed that I can receive two different (and sometimes contradictory) instructions through the lower and higher level perceptions.


Well, it's good that you're still talking, he's been sulking with me for years. Can't quite figure out how he can manage to blether to some folk on more than one channel, whereas most can't get a peep out of him on any? ..Sorry plain naked jealousy I guess. But if I had even a fraction of the guidance you appear to be getting, I'd be right back in there ironing the Dadis saris!
John



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:16 pm    Post subject:

Jamesy Laughing
bkry



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:57 pm    Post subject:

Actually, it is not difficult to talk to God or to get His guidance whether on the higher perception or on the lower perception level. Fortunately, I had learned the art of becoming introverted even before I came into gyan. One has to learn how to go within (become introverted) while focusing your mind on God. With practice, your line of communication with God will keep improving. You will need to have a great desire to have the ability to communicate with God. Even the lower level perception is very good for a start because it will mean that you have managed to subtly pass your communication to God and have got His attention and help. It will not be long before you will be able to have better and more divine experiences. Recollecting the past subtle experiences will help you to attain the stage again. When there is the desire and the believe, you will successfull. No is no doubt about this. There is no need to behave like the students of Gurus and thus expect favours of subtle experiences from the BKs. You are a child of God and if you keep trying, you will get God's help and assistance.
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satish



Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:51 am    Post subject:

Code:
You will need to have a great desire to have the ability to communicate with God


I have experience of this when I was watching Murali live online in center. It was very amazing to me that time when my question(spirtual) was answered as main point. Also I was able to feel his presence around me..

But however time taught me that purpose of communication with shivababa is some thing to make us more detached from world rather than depending on him in our karmic accounts(bondages). It looks funny to me when I watch myself as he doing it on me. Funny thing is, when we are sensitive or desperate to get something, the situations around us are hopeless. Also same hopelessness is whole sorrow inside us making us run, work hard to sort that out. However at end arrival of sorrow depends on how we take that hopelessness.
wahl



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Essex, England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:38 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Funny thing is, when we are sensitive or desperate to get something, the situations around us are hopeless. Also same hopelessness is whole sorrow inside us making us run, work hard to sort that out. However at end arrival of sorrow depends on how we take that hopelessness.


I think I know what you are saying here Satish. I sometimes get mislead into thinking that, in order to find the answer to a problem, I need to focus on it intently and make logical steps to rectify the situation.
I run my own business which has a definite creative side to it (we design the products that we sell) and a definite 'business' side to it (we have to make a profit to survive). I used to think of these two aspects as equal to each other in importance, liking a balancing act. However, I have only very recently (after thirteen years!) learned that the creative aspect is by far the most important. This is very easy to forget when cashflow becomes a little rocky!

Creativity requires intuitive thought and bookkeeping requires logical thought. This can be compared to the difference between soul consciousness and body consciousness. In soul consciousness, we can create because intuition is the natural, but incredibly powerful language of the soul. In body consciousness we can only react or respond and the power to change anything is limited and weak. Without the creative process., ie the beautiful products, created through imagination..........there will be no bookeeping!
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satish



Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:49 pm    Post subject:

Code:
In soul consciousness, we can create because intuition is the natural, but incredibly powerful language of the soul. In body consciousness we can only react or respond and the power to change anything is limited and weak.


Yes Whal you are true. Also I was saying about the situation how would it be when we dont stress ourselves for things to happen but just work on it as it is not our stress. Well people say we will lose the game if you dont stress ourselves to get the result. But I am saying on the point just give ourselves full but rather as our role than pressure.

Usually most of them who believe on GOD depend on him rather than effort and time. In such case it is as you said we only can react or respond.

But if we believe on GOD we should look into his spiritual knowledge where he said we should leave the result to God's wish ie we are never desperate/sensitive to result but only ask him not to get any blame in our effort or work we are doing and being fair with work.

Code:
In soul consciousness, we can create because intuition is the natural, but incredibly powerful language of the soul

I guess this would be same situation when no pressure in us.
bkry



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:27 am    Post subject:

You know when we contemplate on a murli point, we should concentrate on it with the desire that God should give us an understanding (on the higher perception level). If we go within and ask God for an answer, we might get one on the lower level perception where we are told something or the other but we do not get an understanding. When we experience an "understanding", then we are being in the stage of being a master almighty authority. Maybe, some souls are not interested in the usage of words like "master almighty authority". What I am trying to say, when I use this word, is that we would be in a very divine and blissful state where we understand what God has told us (in the murlis and through the lower level perception). What we receive through a lower level perception can be understood through a higher level perception.
If we just keep repeating words in the murli without initiating the link to God, then, we might only be memorising those statements and later we would find it easy to just repeat those statements like a parrot. Through repeating statements to oneself without the desire that God should touch us on it, one might just be brainwashing oneself to accept those statements even if one has no understanding of them. If one wants to understand what one is constantly contemplating on, then one must have a desire to establish a relationship with God where God is our teacher.
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jamesy



Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:29 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
If we just keep repeating words in the murli without initiating the link to God, then, we might only be memorising those statements and later we would find it easy to just repeat those statements like a parrot. Through repeating statements to oneself without the desire that God should touch us on it, one might just be brainwashing oneself to accept those statements even if one has no understanding of them.


Pari, I agree with you, just chucking pleasant mantras around in your head, which I confess is what I do most of the time, might well bring on feelings of peace, serenity, detachment whatever, but they aren't lasting and frankly don't represent my idea of a hotlink with God.

Ok maybe I'm just a poor student, but I know I'm not the only one in often finding the style to be rambling all over the place which doesn't exactly invite contemplation.
Take today's versions
- a stern warning about coming to Madhuban without permission,
- the varying values of the jewels that comprise a multi-studded ring as a variation on the number wise in efforts metaphor
- a strong warning about how easy it is too slip away
- a comparison of the paths of gyan and devotion

And that's just the first page!

Now I personally don't have an issue with the content of any of it. But the way it's presented is a real challenge just to follow, let alone assimilate and further contemplate. I just wish he would build on a theme in a more obvious manner a bit more often. On the rare occasion that does happen it's a lot easier both to listen to, remember and churn afterwards. Well too late whinging now I suppose, let's just hope he takes the hint for next cycle eh?


pari wrote:
Quote:
It is my view that even the statements in the murlis can be group into the "higher level" category and the "lower level" category.


On the basis of what Iíve said up above, you will appreciate that Iím just going to have to take your word on this.

Jamesy
bkry



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:46 am    Post subject:

Dear jamesy,

Spiritual life has to be one where we have an easy attitude.

The Brahma Kumaris are providing a service and they have limited facilities and so they have all sorts of regulations so as to make sure that BKs have facilites when they come to Mt Abu. Previously, I was also considering a lot about whether the regulations/system within the Brahma Kumaris were fair or not. It can be very difficult not to consider that when we see people getting hurt etc. Now, it does not bother me much. I know that it is difficult to please everyone and I also understand that we have all not become perfect as yet and so the sanskaras of one or a few of the seniors are used to establish the system within the Brahma Kumaris. I had not considered the statements in the murlis relating to status and expansion until recently. It had been my view that there no no necceisity to consider these. It was my view that something appealed to us, then we could just flow along with that. I was not interested in working my way up for staus within the Brahma Kumaris and so I was not interested in the statements in the murlis relating to those. But I liked the bit about "expansion of the Brahma Kumaris etc" and so I prefered to flow along with these. It was only recently that I began to contemplate on these and I began to realise that the emphasis for expansion only came after the Dadis took over. So I took it that these statements were made based on their sanskaras and on the sanskaras of those who were helping them. But I also understood that everything happens as per the drama. Expansion had to take place and so it did. Having realised all these I am not so interested in "expansion" anymore. But I still like the idea of getting the Heavenly world created through the power of the gathering. It is my view that statements relating to these were made based on gyan and not based on the sanskaras of BKs. Heaven has to get re-created but if I am giving this a lot of emphasis now, then, this is also happening as per the drama.

You know, soon after I came into gyan, I was informing centerwasis, in Malaysia, that God had shown me the way to the Brahma Kumaris. Once, after I had made similar statements to the centerwasi-in-charge of the Malaysian centers (CIC hereafter), both of us had come into the main meditation hall where there was a huge BK gathering because a programme was going on. The CIC sat on the gaddi and I sat on the fllor within the BK gathering. Then, the CIC looked at me and said something to the effect, "You know non-BKs are coming and telling me that God is guiding them and that God is showing them the way. It seems like as if the non-BKs have greater faith in God than BKs do. It seems like as if God is more importatnt to non-BKs than He is to BKs". Since I considered myself as a BK, I was shocked that he was refering to me as a "non-BK" and so I looked up at him and subtly said, "Hey! What was all that about?" while indicating to his reference to me as a non-BK. He was shocked to see me talking to him subtle but he had immediately over-come that shock and was sitting in a detached state, just looking straight ahead of him, with a smile on his face. I continued to wonder as to why he refered to me as a non-BK. At that time, since I was quite new in gyan, I had not realised that my behaviour was still more like that of a non-BK than that of a BK. The reason why I am relating this incidence is to say that it is very important to give more emphasis to God than to anything else. Many BKs had tried to turn me away from God and towards the seniors but they were not succeesful. I think what the CIC had said itself showed the attitude of many BKs during that time. Now, I am not one who is new to gyan anymore. I am also not one who is flowing along with the system of the Brahma Kumaris. I speak with good wishes in my heart and with the desire that I should help others to establish a good relationship with God. I am not sure if I am doing a good job at this but I am speaking with good intentions.
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wahl



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Essex, England

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:37 am    Post subject:

The depth of understanding taken from the murli is wholly dependent on the consciousness of the reader.

Body consciousness = we take the literal meaning of the words, because that is all we are able to translate in this frame of mind. We are thinking.

Soul consciousness = we can catch the implications that God is conveying because we are intuitive in this stage. We are feeling.
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howiemac



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:57 am    Post subject:

bkry wrote:
it is very important to give more emphasis to God than to anything else

yes indeed - as stated in every murli
Quote:

Many BKs had tried to turn me away from God and towards the seniors but they were not successful.

that was my experience too

Confused
bansy



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I think what the CIC had said itself showed the attitude of many BKs during that time.


The first time to receive something from a senior BK, I looked at what was given to me rather than back to the eyes (i.e to give/receive drishti). The BK snapped and told me to look at her. I was rather taken aback. I was more afraid at dropping the toli, not knowing what it was. There were other BKs/new students around who heard this. I wasn't given the explanation why this "ritual" was done until some other BK quietly did so aside.
John



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:32 am    Post subject:

I think taking Drishti from someone who is impure is not good.
John



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:33 am    Post subject:

Would you have someone breath all over you who had a cold?
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