How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen around us

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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post11 Feb 2019

Something I did note was the further blurring of lines between their activity and Hatha Yoga. A further confusion of what they are doing with "Yoga".

I found that bizarre give how most of the Seniors could not even bend down to tie their own shoe laces (they have young virgins for doing that) and how anti-health and anti-physical exercise they were in the past.

Hatha Yoga was nothing more than Bhakti ... and now they quote Sri Aurobindo instead of Dadi Janki or their god on their flyer.

I argue that BKism is not actually Yoga and, specifically, not Raja Yoga or RajYoga. It's spiritualism or psychicism.

If what they do is "Yoga", then so is drinking (having union with) beer.

I suppose you are right. All such organisations offer a watered down, entry level spirituality that is much the same as the others, as it all comes from the same sources.

* (Sri Aurobindo was famous for joining the Indian movement for independence from British rule - that Lekhraj Kirpalani called traitorous. For a while was one of its influential leaders, before becoming a spiritual reformer).

As to the awards, I would argue that the particular the BK campaign that got one was specifically designed to do that, as to the rest, to quote Woody Allen ...
"80 percent of success is showing up.”
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oldbk

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post11 Feb 2019

Very good point about the Hatha Yoga and the physical condition of Dadis/Sisters. The layers and and layers of disconnect is increasing. At the same time, these layers are giving them the facade to hide behind, and present different face at different situations. Easy to fool the ignorant and acceptable for the wealthy and corrupt. It is a win win situation for all of hem.

Look at all the scandals with Aasarm Babu, Ram ... Nithyananda and many more. In spite of direct association with these bogus gurus, the rich and the powerful have come out unscathed.

In each of those groups, the dissenting voices are ignored or sidelined ... by media and others.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post22 Feb 2019

Old BK,

Thank you for your comments. The ignoring or sidelining of the dissenting voices should never be one of the reasons for such voices to remain silent, at least in terms of non-action. The powerful, whose power is false, will one day crumble and their collapse may even be due to their own internal misdeeds.
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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post22 Feb 2019

Hence the maliciousness of all the fear inducement involved within BKism about "leaving".

There's an old 1960s peace slogan that went something like, "What happens if they make a war, and nobody turns up?". As in, what happens if some elites go to war but ordinary people don't turn up to fight for them. Obviously, there's no war. Easily solved.

Same to applies to BKism.

Just walk away.

Take your faith and keep your relationship with their god spirit if you want. He does not need your time, money and free labour. Only they do.

Let them get real jobs and support themselves instead of living off others trapped by a strange mixture of fear and gambler's material greed (for the Golden Age).
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oldbk

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post22 Feb 2019

True. Walking away from not bringing out these issues is not right, and there is value in bringing out and sharing. It will have an impact on those reading it, although many who come to this portal are already disillusioned and have walked out or in the process of walking out of BKs.

I see within my surroundings so many "so called'" educated people, are still continuing to go after these organizations. In many cases, even after their "Guru" has passed on.

Partly, I see this as a refusal to accept in public that they were fooled/cheated/exploited all along and now, don't want to lose face among their friends and family. This is very much relevant to the Indian community both in India and abroad. Besides that, people are still willing to hope for miracles to change their life (without changing themselves) and these organisations are catering to their egos and expectations. The results are not there, however this can be easily manipulated, as we have seen with the BKs. If good things happen, it is because of following BKism, if bad things happen (in spite of following BKism) it is your Karma.

If the hope is on double foreigners to break this up, then there are big challenges here too. The BKism abroad is very flexible, live as you like, do you as you want ... if you have the money to contribute ... or change the narrative to "generics" World Renewal, Global Warming/Change all that nonsense.

In summary, we just have to keep pounding it here, without losing ourselves in despair while watching little or no change in these organizations. "All good things have to come to an end", so will these Organizations ...
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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post22 Feb 2019

oldbk wrote:This is very much relevant to the Indian community both in India and abroad.

How would you say the BKs look to you, both at home and abroad?

I am thinking that that always offered a little flavour of "Mother India" and that was part of the attraction, the Indianness of it. Comforting for Indian or Sindhi émigrés, exotic and mystical for Western guru seekers.

How do they look in India, are they seen as modern or conservative?

Or perhaps putting a modern facade, on acceptably conservative social values?
The BKism abroad is very flexible, live as you like, do you as you want ...

Is that how it is now?

I will admit I am out of touch and amazed by the stuff so called BKs do, like getting married and living together, tuning in and out of sexual relationships etc.

I'd say that's born of
    a) financial security of the elite, ie they've got enough money and property to look after themselves so it really does not matter who does what now as long as a maintenance fund keeps coming in, by
    b) being more flexible about who they let contribute.
I would not say it is born out of enlightenment. In the early days, it was very much an 'in' or 'out' situation. Perhaps they realised that they lost a lot of people that way?

Around the time we emerged, they also realise the value is keeping exiting members "sweet" so that they did not turn on them (like we did). I remember seeing the paperwork that stated this. I think we have a copy of it.

I have no idea how they are handling exiting members now, especially not exiting "surrendered members", such as surrendered Sisters with no other occupation or way in which to support themselves.

In my day, you'd get a threatening letter telling you that you were going to "cry tears of blood and grinding your teeth with regret" before being cut off. A non- "24 hours a day, 7 days a week" BK was a shameful embarrassment that others BKs would not even eat the food of. Going off to do a non-BK activity, like playing sports an hour a week, was something that was looked down upon and kept hidden.

For real.
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Rajdhani

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post22 Feb 2019

ex-l wrote:
Around the time we emerged, they also realise the value is keeping exiting members "sweet" so that they did not turn on them (like we did). I remember seeing the paperwork that stated this. I think we have a copy of it.

I have no idea how they are handling exiting members now, especially not exiting "surrendered members", such as surrendered Sisters with no other occupation or way in which to support themselves.

In my day, you'd get a threatening letter telling you that you were going to "cry tears of blood and grinding your teeth with regret" before being cut off. A non- "24 hours a day, 7 days a week" BK was a shameful embarrassment that others BKs would not even eat the food of. Going off to do a non-BK activity, like playing sports an hour a week, was something that was looked down upon and kept hidden.

For real.


In my case, the zonal in charge BK Head sent words few times through BK people who are in touch with me (they stay in my locality and often bump into them in our area). I did not bother to go back. So far I've rarely met any BKs whom I know accidental. Only on one occasion, I happened to be there near a BKs home where the BK couple had invited several other BKs, some of whom I knew. I just greeted them and exchanged pleasantries. They didnt ask me why I left, neither did I give them a voluntary explanation. As far as BKs in my area, I just greet them when I bump into them, small talk if any is not around BKism. May be they do not encourage interaction with people who've left as they risk opening a can of worms.

As far as surrendered people are concerned, when I was in "Gyan" I know few Brothers and Sisters who left BKism and got married with somebody who had mostly come for 7 day course ;)

I also know one teacher who got married to a lokik person started coming to regular classes (I do not know if she started coming immediately or after sometime after marriage). I used to hear stories from old timers about some great souls both from India and Double foreigners started doing dis-service after leaving Gyan and all those stories.

As far as shrimad is concerned, almost all watch daily Soaps on TV, some even used to go to movie theaters and dine outside. I remember they were watching Titanic movie in Centers itself. I am sure they would have watched 2012 destruction Hollywood movie several times.

India, in general has changed a lot. Younger generation is more vocal especially on relationships & sex which was a taboo until mid 2000s. Younger generation do not like old timers because they keep on asking nosy questions about education, job, earnings and what not which irritates them a lot and they tend to avoid oldies who are relatives and family friends of their parents. They are also vocal about scam Gurus and spiritual institutions. They can easily access sites like these and educate their elders at home which might seem like a bone stuck in the BK administrators throats.

Another interesting part is 3-4 kids whom I knew, who were coming to the center because their parents were BKs are no longer BKs and they've moved on. Although they stay with their parents, they are not in "Gyan" and parents are fine with it. What might have happened is relatives support the Kids not to get into BKism and they might even tell their parents do whatever you want, don't pull your Kids if they are not interested. Especially so if they are non-vegetarians within Hindu community. One funny part among non vegetarian is if they know somebody in their relative circles have left eating non-veg, all hell will break loose and they make all the attempts to make them eat non veg again! :D
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Rajdhani

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post22 Feb 2019

oldbk wrote:Partly, I see this as a refusal to accept in public that they were fooled/cheated/exploited all along and now, don't want to lose face among their friends and family. This is very much relevant to the Indian community both in India and abroad.


It also could be because their brain is so hard wired after following BKism for so many years, they feel comfortable in continuing (the fence sitters). The stories they have woven around BKism borrowed from Hinduism is so reassuring to an average religious person, especially so if a dash of Celibacy is added to it.

For others who have decided to leave for good, refusal to accept in public is an an issue in India, however, personally, I feel that people will soon realize the gain is more if they accept it than to continue something they don't like. May be there will be some hesitation initially, but people will gradually shed their association with the BKs. A good explanation could be to say that he/she is exploring other paths of spirituality (if they are really doing so). In my opinion, answering people is not "the" problem. The biggest problem is to unlearn the things what was learnt in the BKism. By the time we unlearn and in the process study other related subjects like self esteem, personalities etc., etc., you will be capable of becoming a mini-counselor.

Bottom line, it is not that easy, at the same time it is not very difficult too. There might be some questions asked by friends and relatives, then things will settle down for good. Indians (May be even Asians), in general are nosy types compared to the West. Most people do it out of habit but some people do it intentionally to hurt.

In all probability, somebody leaving BKism will be in touch with this very forum. It will be good idea to have a section and name it aptly and provide info on how the person can transition back to his/her original world, how can they answer people who ask nosy questions and all related stuff.
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Pink Panther

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post23 Feb 2019

oldbk wrote:True. Walking away from not bringing out these issues is not right, and there is value in bringing out and sharing. It will have an impact on those reading it, although many who come to this portal are already disillusioned and have walked out or in the process of walking out of BKs.

I know that some current BKs like to read this site because they find out things they don't hear from the actual BKs or they just like the intellectual stimulation critical dialectic brings.
I see this as a refusal to accept in public that they were fooled/cheated/exploited all along and now, don't want to lose face among their friends and family.

Yes, indeed. There is no denying that anyone who was a BK was that for some reason or other, and you cannot just give up something substantial without replacing it with something equal or better. What BKism does is create a BK mindset, a way of thinking. Even after people leave, they still think in BK terms because it provided a suitable vocabulary. To truly get out from under the influence of BKs you have to have developed a new paradigm, a new world view, a new psychology and new language.
If the hope is on double foreigners to break this up, then there are big challenges here too.

India is the main game. The foreign BK centres are a tiny percentage, less than 5%. All Western BKs could leave and all foreign centres close and Indian BKIVV would still flourish, trading on cultural legacies.
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oldbk

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post12 Mar 2019

Here is another fraud to be conducted,

Spiritual Response to Critical Times - International Conference of Spiritual Master from 137 countries

Never miss an opportunity to capitalize on global events. And never forget to glorify the self, call yourself "Spiritual Masters". Stroke the ego of other participants by calling them "Spiritual Masters" too.

I wonder where they got their certificates from, and who conferred it on them? Is the exam all theory and NO PRACTICALS! Of course, and you can do it online too. ALL self-service - at the end of the course, you can give yourself your own title (whatever you want) and share it with the rest of the World. And it is all genuine ... as genuine as the "current" organization.

Only validation from this course - YOU WILL FACE 100 fold punishment and suffering - We may or may not see it from outside ...
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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post12 Mar 2019

More interesting facts on the conference invitees ... Special Guest Gabriela Michetti

"Abortion shouldn't be allowed, not even after rape, says Argentina Vice-President"

So much for Women Empowerment! "100 fold punishment should not be forgotten".

And there is solid reasoning behind that statement against abortion :|

Quote from the Special Guest at BKs (not made in the BK platform, to be fair).
"I understand the drama [for a woman who is raped] but there are so many dramas in life that one cannot solve. I don’t think that because of a drama one’s life ends. I mean, you can give the baby up for adoption and that’s that,” Michetti said, responding to a question about her position on abortion in cases of rape.

She said the implications of “eight or nine months of pregnancy” in a woman’s life could not justify “eliminating a person who is already conceived.”

“I mean, there are people who experience much more dramatic things and they cannot solve them and they have to deal with it,” the vice-president said in an interview with La Nación which was published Sunday."
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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post12 Mar 2019

She's a Right winger and playing for Right wing votes ... the BKs courting the Right wing yet again. She presents herself as a staunch Roman Catholic.

It's just straight off the Right wing script ... they're bat sh*t crazy. Look at what she is saying, a young girl gets raped, she should go through pain each day of carrying the rapist's baby (and who is going to support her financially?) ... go through the pain of giving birth (and who is going to pay for that?) ... and then give it away "and that’s that".

Really?

Jeez, even the pro-Abortion BKs could not come away as being that detached.

He's the story of an 11 year old raped in Argentina, or try, 'Thousands' of young girls denied abortion after rape in Argentina, many such pregnancies are the result of rape by family members and the World Health Organization has found that complications in pregnancy and childbirth are the biggest killers of 15- to 19-year-old girls.

Why are the BKs tabling her?
michetti wrote:“You can put [the baby] up for adoption, see how you feel during your pregnancy, work things out with therapy (and who is going to pay for that?)... I don’t know ... I understand how much of a drama this is, but there are so many dramas in life we can’t solve that just because we’re going through this one it doesn’t mean your life is over. I mean, you can give the baby up for adoption and it’s all good,” she said.

oldbk wrote:Here is another fraud to be conducted ... never forget to glorify the self, call yourself "Spiritual Masters". Stroke the ego of other participants.

A fraud advertised by a theft. How fitting for "spiritual masters".

The stock image of flags they are using is owned by Shutterstock. They are too cheap to pay for a license (£1.90
per image), so just 'stole' the demo watermarked version instead!

You are right, they are becoming cheaper and tackier by the day ... it is the same old self-advertising they have always done - and this mega-programme is just the same old crap they always do. All a big show, at a huge price, to impress some VIP or another how many of them there are, and to encourage the troops it is all worth the effort.

I suppose the "121" or "137" countries are just all the centred from which BKs were invited. Why are they flying to India purely for mega-programmes ... or was it coordinated with Westerners' season in Mount Abu? To show off to other Indians that White people follow them?

How many non-BKs were in the audience? That's always what got me ... we'd put on these big programmes, at great effort and expense, and at least 95% of people there were all just BKs and family members.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post14 Mar 2019

Who are the masters with 60 years of experience of Yoga?

Are these the BK who 40 years ago were into their 20 years of experience studying Yoga?

What are the levels of their mastery? Here are the BKs and their shallow PR.

Let us examine the meaning of the word master from Eastern, Western, and Buddhist traditions. Jesus was a master, as Bruce Lee was. Milarepa was a master. We can include Ravindranath Tagore or Swami Rama. The BKs love to look down on the likes of Yogananda. How many of the 137, 108, or 8 masters of the BKs can hold an ignited match stick or candle to the enlightenment of Yogananda or his authentic peerage of Masters?

The United States military and the British military would promote generals after they have demonstrated effective skills in battles. These are high ranking officers who would have been trained at West Point or the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst.

Where is the West Point or Sandhurst for the BKs? Is it in Mount Abu?
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oldbk

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post14 Mar 2019

These people are true "Deception" Masters. They are deceiving the the outside world and also deceiving themselves.

Here is how I see it,

These BKs, in particular the ones who have been around for many years AND also moved up the food chain, have realized that they are really not making any spiritual progression. Also, they don't see the transformation that is supposed to come within themselves and in the outside world, that is spoken in the Murli. I will leave the discussion on the Murlis and their points for a different discussion.

Because of this failure in achieving the desired transformation, which I would attribute to themselves, they are in a bind now. They cannot go out after this long a period, they cannot survive there since they have been totally dependent on the BK organization, incapable of self-sustaining efforts (enjoying freebies), have no family/friends in the outside world to relate to. It is almost like coming out of prison or from military service after a long period, say 20 years, and trying to get adjusted to the outside world.

So, these BKs have decided stay back, and now to survive within this environment they have started being an active part of this fraud, for their own survival. Perpetuating this fraud provides them with comfort, power and moving more power, more comfort. As the saying goes,
"Power Corrupts. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely".

Now for the new or young BKs, they are a breed by themselves. Very clear in their goal from the beginning, which is not Spiritual Transformation but Wealth and Comfort Transformation, looking to boost their Ego through Self Projection, their speaking skills mixed with the usual nonsense spewed by all the pseudo spiritual heads. These newbies are encouraged and allowed to perform by the old BKs as they in turn provide returns for the old BKs. It is like the Multi Level Marketing (MLMs), where those at the top always get a "cut" and a bigger one too, as those in the "lower" rung generate a sale. Here, the sale is a donation, bringing a VIP etc.
"100 fold punishment is not to be forgotten"
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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post14 Mar 2019

How about,
"Power Corrupts. Supreme Power Corrupts Supremely".
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