XBK Chat (unofficial archive)

howiemac · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland

In the locked topic "How did each of you PBKs leave the BK organization?"http://xbkchat.com/xbkforum/viewtopic.php?t=739 it was said, by a PBK

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

dear howeimac,

Omshanti. Thanks for the querries. But I am sorry I shall not be able to post the answers today as I am busy in some other work. I shall try to post the answers as soon as possible.
with regards,
Arjun

howiemac · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland

Thanks Arjun - there is no rush - i await your replies with interest.

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Dear Howiemac, Omshanti. Thanks for your cooperation. My replies to the questions quoted by you above are as follows:

Where is the Advance Party ? -----Advance Party is here in this world itself consisting of souls which have recognized the practical role of Shivbaba that has been revealed to the aloukik Brahmin family since 1976, the year of revelation of Father. They are not concentrated at one place but spread all over the world. They obtain advance knowledge from Shivbaba directly and make efforts to enable others to recognize Him through the third eye of knowledge.

How will the Advance Party give birth to the 1st generation of Golden Age? ----- As per the advance knowledge being given by Shivbaba around 2.25 lakh couples will survive the forthcoming destruction and give birth to 4.5 lakh children after the destruction. These 4.5 lakh deity children and their deity parents will constitute the first generation of Golden Age consisting of 9 lakh deities.

How will world transformation from Iron Age to Golden Age actually occur ? ----- World transformation from Iron Age to Golden Age will occur when the entire world recognizes the Supreme Father Shiv through His corporeal medium Prajapita Brahma/ Shankar along with the world mother, the Jagdamba. This Spiritual Father and Mother are remembered in every religion as Aadidev-Aadidevi, Aadinaath-Aadinathini, Aadam-Havva and Adam-Eve. Iron Age, i.e. Kaliyug means an age of anarchy (kalah-kalesh) whereas Golden Age, i.e. Satyug means an age of Truth (Satya). The age of truth can be established only when the divergent or opposite opinions of human beings merge into the opinion of one Truthful Supreme father (i.e. Shivbaba).

What will happen after Destruction ? ----- The 2.25 lakh couples who survive the destruction will undergo rejuvenation of their bodies (kanchan kaaya ) also, just as a snake sheds its old skin and acquires a new skin. After rejuvenation these deity couples will give birth to deity children as mentioned in the answer to the first question above.

Which Souls will survive the Destruction ? -------The 2.25 lakh couples who have fully recognized Shivbaba's practical role and his knowledge and who also take up the vow of purity and practice Rajyoga as taught by Shivbaba. They become numberwise nashtomoha smritirlabdha (detached from the world and remembering only one father).

How will Prince Krishna & Princess Radha take birth? Who will be their Parents ? ---- Among the 2.25 lakh couples that survive the destruction, the numberone couple is the confluence-aged World Empress Shri Lakshmi and confluence-aged World Emperor Shri Narayan. They give birth to the World Prince Shri Krishna and World Princess Shri Radha after destruction after undergoing the rejuvenation of their Iron-aged bodies.

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

howiemac · Joined: 18 May 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Scotland

Thank you Arjun for answering my questions so clearly and concisely - this is certainly a more detailed and believable scenario than anything the BKs have come up with (not that they have officially come up with anything significant at all on this subject).

Do you accept what the murlis say about Mama, Didi ,Vishwa Kishore, et al, being in the advance party? Would you say they are PBKs? Do you believe that all of the advance party (ie 450,000 pre destruction) will be recognised PBKs? Or are there 'incognito' elements within the advance party?

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Howiemac,
Omshanti. Thanks for your reply. My response to your following querries is given below:
1. Do you accept what the murlis say about Mama, Didi ,Vishwa Kishore, et al, being in the advance party? Would you say they are PBKs? --- Yes, the above mentioned souls are indeed in the advance party. But as per the advance knowledge souls of Brahma Baba, Mamma and other BKs like Vishwa Kishore Dada, Manmohini Didi etc. who left their bodies after following the path of knowledge and imbibing purity for a long time, have not taken rebirth (as the BKs generally believe), but are doing Godly service through their subtle bodies by entering into BKs or PBKs to fill them with extra power when they do Godly service. In addition they have also missed out on the advance knowledge that is being given by Shivbaba through his new medium since 1976. So these souls enter into the PBKs to listen to the advance knowledge. Such souls who are doing service through their subtle bodies are called INSPIRATION PARTY. The PBKs who are stronger in the subjects of knowledge and remembrance constitute the PLANNING PARTY since they actually plan the world transformation under the guidance of Shivbaba who is practically present. The BKs who are stronger in the subjects of Dharana (inculcation of virtues) and Seva (Godly service) constitute the PRACTICAL PARTY, which implements the plans of Godly service.

2. Do you believe that all of the advance party (ie 450,000 pre destruction) will be recognised PBKs? Or are there 'incognito' elements within the advance party?------- Yes, the 4,50,000 souls who survive the destruction will be recognized PBKs with physical bodies. The 4,50,000 souls who are supposed to take birth through them after destruction will enter into them before destruction to obtain advance knowledge. These 4,50,000 souls with subtle bodies constitue the "incognito" elements within the advance party. Thus, these 9,00,000 souls (4.5 lakh ssouls with physical bodies + 4.5 lakh souls with subtle bodies) will shine in this world as the 9,00,000 living stars of knowledge.

I have tried to give the above answers based on my limited knowledge. Therefore, I get these answers verified by Baba so as to avoid any mistakes and to get any further inputs. If there are any corrections, I will definitely intimate everyone. As regards any extra inputs from Baba, I will convey to the members if the Admin. allows me to do so.

With regards,
ON Godly service,
Arjun

bansy · Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 84

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Respected sister,
Omshanti. You have posed some interesting questions. I am myself doubtful about the answer to the third question. So I will come back soon with the (verified) answers.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Respected sister, Omshanti. Here is the response received from Baba to your questions:

1. Can you explain how these souls enter BKs/PBKs, is it similar to ShivBaba entering Baba, and no one will know how the soul(s) come and go ?
Ans: It is Incorporeal Father Shiv who enters, not Shivbaba. (Shivbaba is a combination of incorporeal and corporeal.) These souls enter into the BKs with their subtle bodies and they cannot achieve a seed-like stage. Whereas when the BK souls enter into the PBKs, then because of their background of basic knowledge, they catch the seed-like stage soon because of the influence of company. If any soul enters into the BKs then their facial expressions can change. If a soul enters and if the facial expressions change then it proves that the soul belongs to the outside world.

2. In addition, do these souls enter the same BK/PBK each time, or are they free to enter any BK/PBK ?
Ans: These souls enter only into those, with whom they have karmic debts.

3. During the time when they are not in any body, do they return to the subtle region ?
Ans: No, they remain in this world only.

If anyone wishes to see the original answer given by Baba in Hindi then they can contact me personally.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

Sam · Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 47

One reason I left the BKs is that they were unable or unwilling to answer some of my questions about basic gyan. Perhaps you PBKs and your Baba can give me answers?
As these particular questions are related to the “Advance Party”, I have posted them in this thread.

I have posted several more questions for you in the PBK issues thread.

I am happy to have this opportunity to converse with PBKs directly. I have seen your web site and read the advanced gyan section for BKs only. Some of what I read there was very interesting, especially the “Open letter to all BKs”. The reason is I was asking many of the same questions myself and not getting any coherent or sensible answers.

These are my three questions related to the Advance Party;

1. The BKs say all physical sex is impure, so how will the world be populated in the golden age?

2. All married BK couples are expected to be celibate. Are married PBK couples expected to be celibate?
3. In the Avyakt Bapdada murlis the “Advance Party” is often referred to. Do these references in these murlis refer to the PBKs?

Please see my other questions on the PBK issues thread. I would appreciate answers to those too, if you have them.

Kind Regards,
Sam.

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Dear Sam, Omshanti. The answers to your questions are as follows:

1. The BKs say all physical sex is impure, so how will the world be populated in the golden age? ------Reproduction will take place in the Golden and Silver Ages but through the power of yog, i.e. purity and not through the sex-organs as we have known since the Copper Age. As per the Advance knowledge Confluence Age is higher than the Golden Age and heaven will be established in the Confluence Age itself. The gathering of Confluence-aged heaven will consist of 2.25 lakh couples like Lakshmi and Narayan who will give birth to 4.5 lakh deity children like Radha and Krishna through the contact of vibrations. This will be the highest form of reproduction through purity. When the Radha and Krishna thus born, who will constitute the first generation of Golden Age, after growing up, will reproduce through the contact of vision (drishtiyog). In the later generations as the soul consciousness decreases in minute proportions, the reproduction will take place through oral love (mukh ka pyaar). And when the deities become body conscious with the commencement of Copper Age, the reproduction through sex-organs begins.

2. All married BK couples are expected to be celibate. Are married PBK couples expected to be celibate?---- Yes. The concept of purity has been explained in detail by Shivbaba in the various murlis narrated to the PBKs as contained in various audio cassettes and vcds. A book has also been published by the PBKs on the subject of Purity containing murli and avayakt vani points published by the BKs.

3. In the Avyakt Bapdada murlis the “Advance Party” is often referred to. Do these references in these murlis refer to the PBKs?----- Yes. But the BKs consider only those BKs who have been leaving their bodies as the real advance party, who have taken rebirth and will give birth to deities like Radha and Krishna. As per the BKs as well as the PBKs, the 9 lakh (9,00,000) population of deities should be ready by 2036. If the theory of BKs is to be believed, then how can a handful of BKs, who have been leaving their bodies, and taking rebirth, give birth to 9 lakh deities? In comparison, the advance knowledge being given by Shivbaba to PBKs says that 2.25 lakh couples will survive the destruction, undergo rejuvenation and give birth to 4.5 lakh deities by 2036 to constitute an initial deity population of 9 lakhs in the first birth of Golden Age.

I have only made an attempt to answer your questions. Corrections if any, pointed out by Baba will certainly be communicated to you through email.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

John · Joined: 26 Sep 2005 Posts: 157 Location: UK

Arjun

When you say oral love.

Do you mean kissing or oral as in verbal?

Sam · Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 47

Thank you for your answers. According to the tree of humanity diagram the first empress and emperor are Lakshmi and Narayan, in the golden age, and Ram and Sita are emperor and empress in the silver age.

I have read on your web site that your Baba is an incarnation of Ram. This I find confusing as he must be a silver age soul.

Also I have read on your web site that to complete the Trimurti picture of the BKs your Baba should be pictured in the place of Shankar as a real person, in the same way that Brahma is pictured as a likeness of Brahma Baba. Does this mean that the role of your Baba is the role of the destruction of the iron age and that the role of Brahma Baba is the role of the establishment of the golden age?

I have also read on your web site that the role of the BKs is to establish the rituals of Bhakti in readiness for the copper age. Do you agree with this? It would seem to make sense to me as the BKs are very fond of ritual and of pictures of Brahma Baba. If this is correct then what is the role of the PBKs? Are the two roles complementary, and will the BKs and PBKs join up to work together during the confluence age?

Another point is that I understand you have Drishti only with your Baba and not with anyone else. The BKs encourage Drishti with all souls, even non-brahmins. I have found the practice of Drishti to be very powerful with some BKs and also useful in reminding me that we are all souls, brahmin or not. Therefore, the practice of Drishti helps to keep me in soul consciousness. Of course I have not had the experience of Drishti with your Baba so you will have more understanding of this than I have.

Please look at my questions on the PBK issues thread if you have the time, your explanations are most helpful.

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Dear Sam, Omshanti and thanks for the response. Here are my comments on your querries, based on the advance knowledge that I have received from Shivbaba:

1. According to the tree of humanity diagram the first empress and emperor are Lakshmi and Narayan, in the golden age, and Ram and Sita are emperor and empress in the silver age. I have read on your web site that your Baba is an incarnation of Ram. This I find confusing as he must be a silver age soul. ------ Actually as per the advance knowledge, it has been taught by Shivbaba that the soul of Krishna is Dada Lekhraj and the soul of Ram is the present chariot of Father Shiv. But this does not actually mean that the soul of Ram becomes Ram in the Silver Age or that he descends from the soul world only in the Silver Age. Actually Ram has been referred to as the Father and Krishna has been referred to as the child in the murlis. This is based on the events that take place in the confluence age. At the beginning of the CA, Shiv gives spiritual birth to the soul of Krishna, i.e. Dada Lekhraj by entering into the body of the soul of Ram, who was Dada Lekhraj's business partner. Although Father Shiv began His task of giving birth to Brahmins through the soul of Ram, the soul of Ram could not continue for a long time in the yagya and left it and also left his body. After a few years the soul of Krishna, i.e. Dada Lekhraj became His temporary chariot till 1969. When the soul of Krishna left his body and the yagya in 1969 the soul of Ram entered the yagya once again but in a new bodily costume, which is the final chariot. It is through this chariot that the stories associated with Ram or Krishna in the mythological scriptures are enacted. It is through the soul of Ram that the soul of Dada Lekhraj takes birth as Prince Shri Krishna after the forthcoming destruction. The soul of Ram is revealed to the world as the confluence-aged Ram/Krishna/Narayan or as Shankar or as Prajapita Brahma. Hence, Dada Lekhraj is referred to as the soul of Krishna and the present chariot of Shiv is referred to as the soul of Ram. Since the soul of Ram becomes the first Narayan of heaven consisting of 21 births, the entire period of heaven is referred to as Ramrajya or Kingdom of Ram.

2. Also I have read on your web site that to complete the Trimurti picture of the BKs your Baba should be pictured in the place of Shankar as a real person, in the same way that Brahma is pictured as a likeness of Brahma Baba. Does this mean that the role of your Baba is the role of the destruction of the iron age and that the role of Brahma Baba is the role of the establishment of the golden age? ------ Although your guess about the role of Shankar is right but your guess about Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) is not correct as per advance knowledge. Although the picture of Dada Lekhraj has been shown in place of Brahma in the Trimurty, he is not the actual person playing the role of Brahma in the confluence age. It is Jagdamba, or world mother who plays the role of Brahma. You must have heard Shivbaba saying in the murlis that this Brahma is the elder mother (badee maa), this Brahma is Jagdamba, but since the body is Mamma has been made instrumental to look after the female members of the yagya. You must also be aware that Brahma as a male deity is worshipped only in one temple of India, i.e. in Ajmer, located in the state of Rajasthan. But Jagdamba, the world mother is worshipped in every town and village of India. This is because Brahma was not revealed as world mother through his male body that he had to leave in 1969 itself many years before the final revelation. So, although Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) had the qualities of a mother, he is not actually the Brahma of Trimurty. The soul which is going to get revealed as World Mother or Jagdamba is the one who is going to be revealed as the Brahma of Trimurty.

3. I have also read on your web site that the role of the BKs is to establish the rituals of Bhakti in readiness for the copper age. Do you agree with this? It would seem to make sense to me as the BKs are very fond of ritual and of pictures of Brahma Baba. If this is correct then what is the role of the PBKs? Are the two roles complementary, and will the BKs and PBKs join up to work together during the confluence age? -------- Yes, we do agree with what you have said. If you wish I can mail a couple of articles written about the rehearsal of bhakti being done by BKs. Although PBKs, under the practical guidance of Shivbaba are trying to follow His Shrimat without any signs of bhakti, there might be some PBKs also who may, by their actions, do the rehearsal of bhakti in subtle or gross way. But Shivbaba is present to correct them, so there is a hope. Yes, the roles of BKs and PBKs are complementary and they will finally join up to work together towards revealing the father to the world. But many BKs who choose to retain their sanskars of bhakti like subordination to human gurus will have to leave their bodies and will miss out the final revelation of father and the confluence-aged heaven in the world.

I shall write about the point of drishti in another post. The replies to your querries in the PBK issues thread have already been posted.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Dear John,
Omshanti. You wrote," When you say oral love. Do you mean kissing or oral as in verbal?"
In this regard I wish to intimate that Baba has only mentioned 'mukh ka pyar' (oral love) as a method of reproduction among deities in the latter births of Golden Age or in Silver Age. Although He has not explained it in the manner in which you are guessing it to be, but I guess it is not verbal (i.e. through words). I feel Baba will explain these matters as the time progresses and as our soul consciousness increases. However I will convey your querry to Baba and convey to you his reply as and when it is received.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun